This all occurred in US room 13 easy a few minutes ago. (10-20?).

Anyway, I had the word lad. So I drew a box with Sn in it. You know? The SYMBOL on the periodic table for lead? Got a warning for that. Ok, I don't like that, but it's fair enough. Warning said we could use numbers though. So I did this on the word away:

4 _ 4 _

And got banned. That is not letters. Last time I checked, 4 was a number. That's not even letters. My intent is clear, but it's entirely numbers, which, as far as I can tell, is ok since your TOS never mentions leet speak strictly as numbers.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that if you're going to ban people, you should state why you are doing so and what rule is being broken. Sure one can argue that not every single instance of everything can be covered in the rules, but come on. In a game where spelling inn't allowed, don't you think it's a bit much of an eye-dee-ten-tee to not cover the kind of thing I did?

If you don't want something to happen, instead of friviously banning people for breaking rules that aren't actually anywhere that anyone can read them,
try making it clear that it's against the rules before you go banning people for it. You explicitly warned me that numbers and symbols where ok. Sure, this means that my periodic table symbol, because it contained letters, was questionable, but it also means that leet speak without letters is a-ok....unless you add a clause saying no variations of leetspeak are ok.

Also: My ban is just a 30 minute one, but seeing as you use IPV4 to do IP bans, I'm sure there is some strike against mine, which is a bit aggravating. Hopefully you don't keep permanent strikes or anything, because that wouldn't be very nice to whoever gets my old IP now that my ISP is switching mine.

Firstly, welcome to the forum glassweaver :)

To clarify, chemical symbols are against the rules and this is stated explicitly.
Chemical symbols are not allowed, as they are almost always abbreviations of the word. Mathematical formulas are allowed. For example: The word "equation" can be rendered using "x + y = z".

So as far as using symbols containing letters, the only ones which are allowed are variables and symbols in mathematical equations. I agree with you that it is a bit ambiguous since that it states both in the rules and in big bold letters before you draw that no letters are allowed. I think it's always safer just to avoid using letters altogether since that other players can vote as soon as they see one letter and not the context it is in.

Your second draw with the leet speak does give away the number of letters in the draw and that is against the rules.
Illegal use of hints: As artist, only after you have clicked on the HINT button can you freely give the number of letters in the puzzle or draw spaces representing the letters in the puzzle.
Whilst you used 4's and numbers are allowed, I think you would know yourself that this is being rather sneaky and defeating the purpose of the game, which is to represent the word in a picture. From the way you used the numbers it could be construed as a messily written A and that is a letter. Or if you are adamant that it was a number then this section of the rules could explain your block:
"Drawing" individual letters: Rendering any letter/s within the word individually using any kind of symbol, icon, code, color, hint, stress, etc. is not allowed.

You can split the word into syllables and draw pictures for each syllable for difficult words. I suggest you reread the rules carefully before you next play. It would appear your block has already expired so good luck!

I realize it was sneaky, even morally wrong. And yeah, you pretty much solidified the chemical symbol thing. The black and white definition is that I used letters in that one. Shame on me.

The second one though, yes, gives away the number of letters, but if someone where to do a series of boxes, would enough people pick up on the box representations to report the person? What if it was actually a group of arranged presents for the word gifts? or a dotted line, stitching, or some such?

Yes, I realize what I did was sneaky and back-handed, but what I'm taking issue with is that it doesn't seem to be against the rules. I like that the chemical symbol thing is so obvious in there, see? You found an explicit example of it. Now someone needs to append a clause saying that "any attempt to use numbers in a manner representing leetspeak will be considered letters"

Am I a sneaky little ba...rd? Yeah, sometimes, Especially on fridays and saturdays, in fact. But if someone want's to do something about it without being in the wrong themselves, they need to make it clear that it's wrong.

It is the very argument that I am posing which is why the founding fathers of the American Goverment made sure to put in an elastic clause to the constitution, provisioning for the addition of new rules and regulations as they became necessary.

All I'm saying is that I think it's necessary. Warn people, add it to the rules, and then start doing bans. :smile:

They don't need to explicitly say that leet speak is against the rules since the section about "drawing" individual letters covers it and any other kind of code.

(I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, and thank you for humoring me...)

It's just as big as the example of chemical symbols though, at least I'd think so...I mean, sure, what is there has room for interpretation, but, if you interpret it that strictly, then anytime anyone arranges dots in any pattern bearing resemblance to any of these brail letters: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/gif/braille.gif

(or squares/anything for that matter) they could be banned. And what if someone drew an A frame house? On that note, triangles in general look like As to me. Can I just frivolously vote to ban/kick people when I see triangles and think the word has an A in it, or notice what could be construed as bail lettering?

Sure, what I did was, as you have pointed out, very obvious in intent, but it was still just a dotted line that happened to have the number 4 occour on it twice. In fact, it was even in the form where all angles are 90% unlike the 4 seen here in the forums.

The point is, as much as anything, that you cannot render letters individually. If it helps, just disregard the whole aspect of resemblance between shapes and letters. This is the example given in the official rules of a disallowed draw:

http://www.isketch.net/instructions/gfx/d_company.gif

The letter "a" has been shown by an apple. It doesn't matter how much the apple looks like an "a", it's because it's a drawing for one single letter, which is only allowed in single-letter words...

Medea has pretty much said all that needed to be said anyway. The key rule is:
"Drawing" individual letters: Rendering any letter/s within the word individually using any kind of symbol, icon, code, color, hint, stress, etc. is not allowed.
You rendered the letter A, individually, with a code. No rules need to be added, as the exact rule that was broken is present here.

As for the braille and that... it too is a "code" or alphabet used to render single letters, so yes it should be voted. It's less likely that it will be voted on, as people would be less likely to recognise it. People who read braille are, generally, blind. Blind people don't generally excel at pictionary. Drawing braille characters wouldn't do anyone a whole load of good, whereas writing Pb for lead... or Sn in your case... will, which is why you're more likely to be voted for it. It's because it's more recognisable, not because it's more against the rules.

Bear in mind that you have judgement. You know when a triangle is just a triangle. It's difficult to explain to somebody who clearly already knows what the case is but continues to argue. There are plenty of ways to draw any word without breaking the rules. Just read through the rules and I'm sure that you'll get on fine. :)

Hey there glassweaver and welcome to the forum :)

If your word was "away" and you wrote 4__4_, those 4's are probably used to represent the A's in "leet speak" just as Medea says. Although it is not explicitly expressed in the rules, it would be interpreted as depicting individual letters, and therefore you could get blocked for this. It could also be that you have given away the number of letters by using the 4's, which would also be classed as cheating unless you have hinted at least once prior to drawing them.

Any letters that you draw on the screen could be used to hint at the word so I would advise to avoid using them altogether :)

Edit: Also just to clarify, a ban is permanent. You received a 30 minute block, which is only temporary.

Hi Dreamweaver...hate to be picky, but Sn is the symbol for Tin not lead...Pb isthe symbol for Lead.

Happy isketching
:)

Although it is not explicitly expressed in the rules, it would be interpreted as depicting individual letters

It is explicitly expressed in the rules though:

"Numbers: You may use numbers in clues, (i.e., use the number 2 for "two" or "to") - including numbers that are already in the puzzle. You must not use numbers to represent letters as done in techno jargon. For example: Do not write 533 for the word "see". Roman numerals are allowed; do not mistake them for letters."

Ah thanks Steiny, you are absolutely right :)