I often trawl through news sites and came across this very interesting article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6956394.stm).

What I would like to know is - if a member of the public was being assaulted - would you intervene or would you turn a blind eye? Similarly, if it was a member of your family, what would you do then? If your answers are different, why? I am of course interested to hear views from members who are not in the UK and whether the laws are different or similar.

I will share my views later as I am in the middle of cleaning out my son's sorry excuse for a bedroom and have procrastinated enough already :razz:


Edit: Jeremy Vine (Journalist from the BBC) discusses his views here (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6954778.stm)after recently witnessing an attack

a lot of the knife related stories in the news is people trying too intervene. . .just stay out of it really, as much as you would like too help. Same with a car accident. . if you try and help, YOU can be held responsible for anything that goes wrong.

Messed up world. .

A topic that's very close to my heart and thank you for bringing it to light TF my sweetheart :biggrin: (Ok, I'll stop being soppy)

Unless you are a family member of mine, you wouldn't know that I have suffered a terrible and public attack in broad daylight.

It was on a junction in a busy housing estate and I do remember alot of cars passing by but not one of them stopping or even calling the police. Yes, it would be unrealistic to expect someone to intervene but a call to the police wouldn't have hurt anyone. Mobile phones weren't around as much as these days but there was a call box just a few moments down the road. But no-one thought to do that or I would've been saved somehwere along the line.

It is very hard for me to admit this but I have an anxiety disorder and it's created by the lack of support when I was attacked. There are days I cannot leave the house because I am torn down by thoughts of 'If something happens to me, no-one will help me' and I don't just mean somebody hurting me, what if I collapsed through ill-health? I'm very ashamed that I have no faith in anyone around me but close family and friends. A psychologist said to me that 'People don't like violence'. Very true but there was nothing stopping anyone from phoning the police.

To be more up-to-date, these days you have to be more careful. If it's a youngster, then a high percentage (not everyone) of them have no respect for anyone and will probably turn very violent or carry weapons of some description. But still, there is nothing stopping you from calling the police. Please don't just ignore it and carry on. You don't have to get physcially involved but you can call for help.

Depends on the situation and how i am prepared for it. If it's out of my league, i stay out. If i can help, i help.

Guns? out
knives? out
punches? in
first aid? in (certified, thus only liable to its limitations)

i hope this restores your faith a little facey.

i was in bed late one night and i heard a girl screaming for help. i opened my bed room window to try and work out where the screams were coming from both me and my bloke chucked some close on as quickly as possible.
i ran out side to where the screams were coming from and there was a girl on the floor with a bloke on top of her. the poor girl was covered in mud and cuts
i screamed to tim to call the police hoping this would scare the man off and he got off her straight away.
i called her over to me and told to her to come inside. the man ran off in the other direction.
it turns out the girl had just moved in up the road and the man was her ex. he'd took her keys and she had no way of getting into her flat so we let her stay the night.
the police came round and took a statement.
what angered me is that this happened right outside of her flat and if we heard so must her neighbours but they didnt show their faces until long after the man had gone.

I cant stand by and watch things happen to people. you can call me stupid and i might get hurt my self but you dont know if you dont try.
all i did was shout for the police to be called and that was enough. i'd like to think someone would do that for me!!!!

I witnessed a terrible incidenct on the bus in Bologna. It didn't help that I coudln't understand the language (the people involved were not Italian - not that I speak Italian even, lol). A couple were sitting at the back of a very crowded and noisy bus, and Mr. Vik and I were standing at the front. The woman was shouting and screaming at her partner, her voice easily drowning out the normal chatter. No idea what it was about, but it resulted in her getting punched more than once in the back of her head by him.

My reaction was to yell out 'OI! Cut it out!' in English which I guess really helped, lol. Honestly, I expected one of the men to step in. I don't know why I thought a guy would do it over a woman - a sterotypical protective role, maybe? But no-one did. I was pretty distraught over that - not the attack as much as the inaction - I mean no-one even said 'come on now, that's not cool' or whatever - but I can sort of understand why. Stay out, stay safe. I'm not sure how I feel about that now, no idea if the woman wanted or needed help really - she looked as though she could give as good as she could get - but I have never seen something like that before and it really shook me up. I still wonder why I didn't do more myself, I probably could have got someone else to help out if I really tried, but I didn't. It all happened so fast.

I like to think I'd help out if someone was in trouble (although I'm not that big!).
When I was about 10 years old I saw a woman struggling against a bloke trying to take her handbag. I was shocked at the time but felt so guilty after because I didn't try anything. Probably a good thing considering my age but I still feel guilty now.

I would try to help, as I have done on some occasions before. I would like someone to help me if I was in need of assistance. I suffer from panic/anxiety disorder due to a phobia. This phobia also makes me carry round an awful lot of guilt. guilt is a terrible thing to live with day in day out, and I would never forgive myself if I could have intervened.

One one occasion, i was staying at my parent's house, and in my sleep I could hear this girl screaming for her life, my dad and my friend also heard it, and we didn't care we ran out of the house to help this girl. Now she was banging on a friends door to get in, so she could feel safe etc.. as he was beating on her outside this house. This girl only wanted refuge and not one of the MEN that where in that house came out to help. It was left up to us, to get this girl cleaned up and a taxi home to where she lived. Maybe its just me but that is just pure cowardly, all those so called MEN in the house and not one of them would help her out. That is just one of my experiences, I have actually tackled a bloke for beating on his girl, while his children were crying. I ain't really a violent person, but push my wrong buttons and you 'ave had it

Nice one TF

I've mentioned this before I'm sure, but last time we intervened on a situation like this, I came away with a cracked head and a busted nose, and my brother needed stitches after having a bottle cracked over noggin by the very people we were trying to help.

As for the question about family members - in this situation it was me that went to help out, and that resulted in my bro getting hurt... With hindsight, we probably should have just left them to it... they were pure headcases.

Hardly an advertisment for chivalry and a definite dent to one's confidence, but would we do it again?

Yup.

I've never really seen a fight where one person was innocent and the other one was the bad guy, so I've never been in the situation. If two people start fighting with each other I think it's their problem and I leave them to it unless it gets really bad (I think that's a situation Ches and his bro ended up in).

If a random person is attacked I think I'd try to do something. I always make comments to people on the street if they do something bad or stupid (but also if they do something nice), so I guess it's not a long shot to try to at least inform the police or help a victim afterwards. I mean, if there are weapons involved I'd go for personal safety, but I'd be killed by guilt if I wouldn't try to do anything at all.

I'm a pretty small guy though, so my big mouth is going to end me beaten up or killed some day. But for a lot of people -except for the loonies- just making a comment is enough to make them think twice.

Wow! You guys have really had some experiences! It angers me however, that following on from the first article in my original post - that if you were to intervene and hurt the 'aggressor' - you could be charged for assault! Essentially, you have to prove that you were defending yourself and were in immediate danger - so wading in and for example, just grabbing the attacker by the arm and leaving a bruise may be enough to gain yourself a free ride to the local cop shop!

I suppose I can put three elements into this debate - Work, Family and Outsiders. At work, I don't have an option. If I see someone being attacked (which happens regularly), I have to intervene. To stand by and do nothing could result in immediate suspension and possible dismissal. My preferred method is verbal de-escalation, but can also resort to physical intervention (with another colleague hopefully!)

If a member of my family was being attacked - it would probably go without saying that I would not just sit back and let it happen. Basically, the old adage "Mess with them, Suffer with me" springs to mind.

Outside is a completely different situation. At work and to a certain extent family life - I am familiar with the boundaries as to what could cause a situation, obviously know the people and I suppose you could say I am a little tunnel visioned.

If I saw someone being attacked - I would immediately call the police, but I don't think I would put myself in physical danger and also it is dependent on who is with me at the time - if my children were, I would not want to expose them to that and my main priority is to keep them safe. You also don't know members of the public and quite often are unaware of the background that is causing the incident. How would we know that the person being attacked had just done something awful to the attacker's family? You also wouldn't know whether the person is armed or is under the influence of drugs. A bit of a Russian Roulette don't you think?

I've never really seen a fight where one person was innocent and the other one was the bad guy, so I've never been in the situation. If two people start fighting with each other I think it's their problem and I leave them to it unless it gets really bad (I think that's a situation Ches and his bro ended up in).

Twas a fella bashing a lass, with 2 other lasses shouting and screaming. Wasn't really a fight as fights go until we turned up... And I think we were innocent. Plus we don't hit women... even when they're bottling us. lol.

if it's just a bit of a scrap. . .get in!

if it's a bit more serious, call the filth.

:embarrassed: I have just realised something!

I have put this thread COMPLETELY in the wrong section :embarrassed:

Now then Greenies.... do you ummm Have a Go (and move this thread in a quick and efficient manner).... or Turn a Blind Eye?? :razz:

I would say that I'd quickly move it and then pretend to have noticed it ages ago, just leaving it here as a test to you to see if you noticed it was wrong.

So, *cough* well done TF! You passed the test, carry on!

/me laffs at Vik!

After derailing this thread, I'll bring it back on topic :P

I find it upsetting that by doing what you think is right can have awful consequences for you. However, we shouldn't forget that just because something bad COULD happen to you that it WILL happen to you for intervening.

In a situation like that, most people react on instincts, they don't call their lawyer to ask if they can return a punch without getting sued, so the debate is almost moot. In such a crowded world it's inevitable that we'll be goverend by stricter and stricter laws, but all any of us can do is what we think is best.

lol Vik... I am pleased I passed the test :razz:

Slightly back on topic though with a spin on the original sentiments:

A colleague at work had to intervene when a fight erupted. He stepped between them in order to defuse the situation and was struck hard on the side of the face. The attacker had to be physically restrained by him and another colleague. To cut a long story short, a few days later my colleague was suspended with full pay pending an investigation by the police as the attacker made an allegation that he was restrained heavily and subsequently injured his arm.

The investigation was slow (as they normally are) and no charges were brought against him. He wasn't allowed to work for nine weeks whilst the investigation was conducted and was requested not to contact any employee or discuss with them the details of the investigation (as is normal practice in situations like this).

Thankfully, he is back at work now - though his confidence was understandably shattered for a little bit. Not only did he receive an injury whilst trying to help, but was investigated for it. Some might say it is an Occupational Hazard. Indeed, in my line of work it is and we run the risk of this every day.

It is a sad, sad world we live in now - I dread to think what it will be like in the next twenty years.

Have a pop at cherry lol.
In my childhood i grew up with a very violent father, he used my mum and us kids as punchbags, (long story).
Anyway as i got older i got tougher, untill one day my anger boiled over, my so called father was beating up my mum, he almost threw her down the stairs, i came up behind him and clobbered him with a heavy baseball bat we had.
He was badly injured and went to hospital, police was called out by ambulance crew, i was 13 at the time, so i wasent taken to a police stn, but i did go to court for doing what i did.
I was branded a little hero by the judge, and sent home, my father never ever came home again, thank the lord.
The crux of this is that now in my adult life i CANNOT see anyone being hurt, ive seen to much in life to ignore it.
I will always steam in head first to help, as i have done many times before, ive been hurt defending others, but mainly ive come out of it ok.
My childhood made me tough, which in this world i grasp with both hands, as i have four children to protect, and belive me when i say nobody messes with my kids.
So what do you say am i as bad as the idiots who start fights, or am i justified in being a tough cookie.

On the same note, I'd like to bring up something I see in public that really bothers me. What would you do if it was a parent yelling and slapping their child in what you felt was an unnecessary way? Would you intervene then or turn a blind eye since it's not your child?
I'm bringing this up because last week I saw my neighbor yelling and slapping her five year old on the face repeatedly outside for not following behind her. I finally decided I'd watched enough and asked if everything was all right and maybe if her daughter would like to come over and play with mine. I'd like to look back and feel heroic for having the courage to speak up, only I think I made things worse. My neighbor snapped at me, got angrier at her daughter and literally threw her into the car. I can only imagine the yelling that went on then.
What if it was a complete stranger though? We've all been on line at the grocery store when a parent loses control and starts hitting their child. At what point would you say something, or would you? Is it none of your business?

So what do you say am i as bad as the idiots who start fights, or am i justified in being a tough cookie.

That question really depends. If you outwardly go out looking for trouble and incite a situation further - then yes, you could be considered equally to blame. However, if you witness something that you have no part of initially and try to defuse the situation in a positive manner, then in my opinion you were merely trying to help.

Your story made shocking reading WC ((hugs))



We've all been on line at the grocery store when a parent loses control and starts hitting their child. At what point would you say something, or would you? Is it none of your business?

Very difficult question aerochick! At what stage does mild chastisement of a child become abuse? Our laws in the UK are very vague. Currently, a parent is allowed to "mildly smack" their child - but smacking is banned if it causes: bruises, scratches, reddening of the skin, mental harm or use of an implement. Quite a grey area don't you think!

Source: BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3868561.stm)

In other European Countries, smacking is banned outright and parents could face a hefty fine or imprisonment. So, where do we draw the line as to what is acceptable? It certainly doesn't help that there is conflicting advice and society in general have different tolerance levels.

My tolerance of any form of physical discipline is low (but then again, I work in this field and have a legal duty of care). Quite often in situations where you lose control, you mirror the behaviour of the person you are disagreeing with. Child does something wrong... you tell them off. They start to cry... you get angry. They pick up that you are angry and become defensive and maybe talk louder... you start to shout. They shout... you shout louder... get the picture? As a parent, you try to assert your authority and this is the critical time. You have lost control, you are shouting and angry, adrenaline is running through you, your child is being a demon from hell. Some parents resort to a smack at this point, but their anger and frustration may make them hit the child harder than they intended.

The UK laws right now are crazy as TF said. They rely solely on the consequences of the smack instead of the smack itself. Some people bruise more easily than others, on white skin reddening would be much more obvious than on black skin.. the law basically waits until the child has been smacked before it can do anything, more preventative legislation is needed if it's deemed that children should not be punished in such a way, but does the state have the right to intervene?

Aerochick's question raises so many other points. How much can or should you intervene with another parent's child-raising skills. How cross would YOU be if a stranger interfered with your parenting because he or she felt it was wrong? It's possible that seeing a mother and child in the supermarket with a trolley/cart full of sweets, chocolate, ready-made meals, soft drinks etc constitutes child abuse just as much if not more than a tap on the back of the legs (my mum's form of punishment) - but would you intervene if you saw that?