I have come across someone who is a blind user with programs to be able to be online but cannot use isketch due to the flash or whatever that is involved....
Can't isketch be made where the social rooms are easy for blind users to use? I feel that it should be available to ALL people and not leaving anyone out. i think there could be a way where the social rooms are seperate from the game rooms and have the social part just simple chat devices... none of that flash stuff or whatever makes the programs for blind users unable to hear what they need to in order to get on. Any music drowns out the text being told to them. Thats my opinion and idea, is there any others who sat and thought about this that feel like i do? I never had till i started talking to blind users and if i was a blind user i would feel left out as well.

I saw this and was wondering, "How many points would a blind user be able to get in iSketch, if they can't see to guess the pictures?"

Then I realised what lilvoices was on about. iSketch is a flash software based programme and therefore cannot be accessed without it, so maybe the blind folks would just be better off not using iSketch.

/me wonders if lilvoices hears little voices inside their head?

I have no idea how the software works but with regard to the music, there wouldn't be any in a social room and any pinking noises, joining room noises etc, can be turned off if they're a problem. Or is it that the flash won't work with the software in general?

iSketch is based on Adobe Shockwave, which can support Text-to-speech accessibilty:

http://www.adobe.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/director/

Whether iSketch chat rooms use this functionality is another matter, though

Bad_Manner$, yes that would be the simpliest solution of all, but how would you like to be blind and not be able to try something out that has something you might enjoy and could do if only some thing was changed just enough that it could happen? And no i don't hear voices.
Facey, my friend can't turn them off for the fact he can't even figure out how to log on. It tells him isketch and then the things at the bottom, so he can't just go into settings and turn the sound off on isketch.
sense/net, thanks for that link. He checked it out and thinks its for someone who is designing a website, not for what he needs.

Being blinded is one of my worst fears... I've taken a few knocks to the head so far (yes yes... that explains everything. yadayadayada.. :P) had cysts in my eyes, and even managed to get scratches on my eyeballs (don't ask) and the vision impairment was terrifying.

I don't see, however, what a blind user could get from iSketch... if its just the chat rooms, there are a gazillion of them about. Or they could join the forum and get the low down on all the goings on from the most loveliest of isketch players ;)

Bad_Manner$, yes that would be the simpliest solution of all, but how would you like to be blind and not be able to try something out that has something you might enjoy and could do if only some thing was changed just enough that it could happen? And no i don't hear voices.
Facey, my friend can't turn them off for the fact he can't even figure out how to log on. It tells him isketch and then the things at the bottom, so he can't just go into settings and turn the sound off on isketch.
sense/net, thanks for that link. He checked it out and thinks its for someone who is designing a website, not for what he needs.

Sure but lets get realistic about it. If there's something that you'd like to do, but there are obvious limitations then of course you'd be unhappy, but if there are no soultions, then there are no solutions. Its not that I don't gve a flying ♥♥♥♥ about blind people, my dad is almost blind and he has no desire to play isketch, drive a car, ride a motorcycle...... Well maybe he does but he realises there are limitations and some things he just can't do.

I have a very good friend who is a quadriplegic and he can use his computer - but play iSketch? His limitations are obvious too. And if he wants chat rooms, there are (as Ches says) gazillions of them suited to his interests and they don't require flash player. We talked about this last week and he said iSketch is just not for him - not interested in chatting with immature teens (or immature adults like some of us... well me anyway).

I read this thread with some amusement from BM's posts. I actually agree with him!

Being ignorant as I am, can your friend (if the programme was accessible) guess the pictures? I'm guessing not because not even some brilliant programme could describe my drawings!

So I would suggest to your friend to find a decent chatroom - perhaps there are ones that blind people use already and he could chat about things they have in common. Sorry if I/we sound unsympathetic but it really is a fact of life that there will be some things that aren't possible for some. I mean, I'd love to run a marathon, if only they'd shorten the distance to 26 metres!

Sorry if we sound unsympathetic
I feel the need to emphasize this. You may think that we're being unsympathetic but I can assure you that we're not that kind of group. I get the feeling that you may feel that we are being (correct me if I'm wrong). Please don't feel that we are x
There are people here who have disabilities and fully understand what it's like to not be able to access certain things. I'm one of them. But it is maybe something that you have to draw a line in the sand over.

Piggie, the original poster wasn't saying that the blind guy wanted to play - just to take part in the social aspect.

Anyways, I agree with the others. It sounds harsh maybe, but there really are lots of other chatrooms that blind people can access. There is nothing special about the iSketch ones!

how could a blind person see a drawing??

I think the poster was talking about just the chat rooms, Amandi hon xxx

I spend a lot of time in chat and often have difficulty understanding the gibberish many players type in there so I doubt any program would cope with it to be honest.

All lilvoices is trying to say is they should make a link that is all HTML for blind users because me and her know a few that would enjoy coming here to try it. :)

Correction, They need to make a seperate page for blind users to chat that doesnt use flash just html

How much time and/or money, though, would it take to set up a system like the ones mentioned? And how many blind people actually USE iSketch? Or would want to? It seems like a lot of effort for only a few people. Not to mention, they wouldn't be able to play, just use the chat room. I understand why some people would want to use the chat, if their friends regularly use it... but there are lots of other options besides iSketch.

Thus spoketh the Pickle of the Doometh…

Hmm... How to start this is going to be hard without my temper getting the best of me. A lot has been said on the harsh end to lilvoices but I'm hear on her defense. I agree with you lilvoices because it would be nice to have blind, hearing impaired, blah blah blah.

For those who may have a friend or family member or even be disabled yourself should not have put down someone who was trying to help someone to come to a network that cannot. I mean what if this person has friends that are from iSketch and would like to join them in a room but can't because his computer cannot detect how to sign in?

Those who went against her and said it's not for the blind because he/she cannot see what was being drawn, "Well NO FLYING FOWL" that isn't what lilvoices was asking about. lilvoices was asking for a friend who is blind join her in a SOCIAL room. Yes, there are chats all over the internet. I just think most of you need to get a heart.

Of course if this gets deleted and I loose my account I don't care b/c it's not worth it. You all are nothing but immature and deserve what is coming too you.

Go play in the mud to all of you, who can't see lilvoices was caring about someone different!!!!

You take things far too personally...

No one attacked lilvoices in any way. People are allowed to disagree with things - that's what creates debate and makes discussion interesting.

Your post is an attack on every member who has posted here and completely unacceptable. It is a shame that your immaturity has caused you to resort to swearing and insults and incoherent rambling instead of building a convincing argument.

If it is purely for the chat and not to play games, and if everyone is friends, why not go to another chat room that is already coded with the translation software or use an html chat room? It would be a far more efficient way than asking someone to recode an entire site for a part which is not the primary function of the game.

It seems your temper did indeed get the better of you.

Look all juni and lilvoices want is a change so blind users can use isketch dont yell at them

Ladies i support you 100%

okay. i'm extremely confused now.

where on earth did any of us yell?

and Juni, i don't see any evidence of rudeness, or anything that would warrant what you posted. go see post #9. we're really just a bunch of nice people.

Yes, I allowed my temper to get the best of me. It was wrong of me and I'm sorry to those I have hurt but i read those who were against as laughing at her and thought it was a silly idea. Yes, I know others have different opinions and ideas but if this is such a friendly chat I figured some could have not stated "how does a blind person see someone drawing?" I mean it kinda made her statement sound stupid or something. And I make websites and I know it can be a bit of a pain to make things different but would it be that much more work for it to be in html or whatever blind ppl to use iSketch? I mean you do want as many to be welcomed aren't I correct? It's not just all about drawing, it is also for a place to meet other people and you don't always come across the ppl that are on iSketch on other parts of the internet...

Are you using a shared computer, Juni?

no she's not, but she has the same ip as i do... we live in the same house. Different computers.

The members on this forum were just stating an opinion... i think that most of us would not opposevthe idea of blind users on iSketch, just that it primarily is a game site and the game aspect uses drawings, most of the people that use iSketch play the game, although there are some chat rats.. i do not believe anyone was trying to be mean or rude, but try suggesting this to feedback.. see if they give you any different opinions, as i have said in other threads this forum is a place for people that like to play iSketch get together and share opinions and ideas, it's rather a fun place to be if you let it

And welcome to the three of you, lilvoices, juni, and rob_west

Since it is apparent that Isketch is not interested in making things better for the impared! It is visible to see this in all of your words and are quick to just say go else where! Just stop and think about how easy it truely is to loose thought of anoughter person and just think on it! Why no any three day old idiot would know a blind user can not see flash for 1. The thought just the thought of setting a room for them would be truely amazing so blind users dont have to feel like live stock and hearded else where for 2! But least of all It is amazing to see how places like this will never be larger than mIRC really think about it when you push away the thought of even trying to set it active for all! Thank you have a nice day! Anarchist since for some reaqson I could not register at your place so I will see myself like the blind users are off else where! I mean I hope there to be no offense by my words here!

You do realise we have no power over the iSketch site, right? People were just giving opinions and some, shock horror, disagreed with the proposition.

No need for everyone to come to the forum mob handed to say the same thing again and again. You like the idea. Some other people like the idea. Some other people dislike the idea. That's life. Deal with it.

Notice that this forum is html and blind users, like anyone else, are welcome to join.

Why no any three day old idiot would know a blind user can not see flash for 1.

I'm trying to decipher this... I assume that you know that iSketch has been around for years... I also assume you know that it is primarily designed as a pictionary game. I doubt very much the site designer anticipated a large influx of blind players. I also doubt that at iSketch's inception the ability for flash to have the necessary translation was available.

Mail feedback and get an official response, and respect the opinions of other members on this site.

me, lilvoices, and juni all know a few blind people that would love to come here but there screen readers wont read pictures or flash text. That is why we would like ISketch to use HTML to make is accessible to all users Sighted or Blind.

The thought just the thought of setting a room for them would be truely amazing so blind users dont have to feel like live stock and hearded else where for 2!

Herded elsewhere? Why would anyone feel that way? I don't believe an impaired person would feel like livestock, simply because they can't participate in an online game that is dependant on seeing players.
As for using the chat rooms, chat on iSketch is a small part of the program. And, about half of all the chat rooms are "CAM 2 CAM!!!!" "CYBER INCEST SEX" and other basically offensive subjects. In my opinion, the chat is there so that if you want to stop and talk to a friend, you don't get in the way, or distract, people in the playing rooms. It’s pretty much pointless to spend hours developing an alternate page connected to the main game merely for discussion. That is not why the game exists! Or, at least that's what I think.

me, lilvoices, and juni all know a few blind people that would love to come here but there screen readers wont read pictures or flash text. That is why we would like ISketch to use HTML to make is accessible to all users Sighted or Blind.

As it has been stated before in this thread, as well as in others, all of your suggestions should be sent to feedback (info@isketch.net)

iSketch is a pictionary game.. therefore not necessarily made for blind people, i don't believe that anyone that is registered on this site has anything against the blind, and it would be a welcome change for them to be able to play as well, but that is up to the owner of iSketch.. we as users (some admins) on isketch can not do anything to help you, try emailing feedback and see what they say

That is why we would like ISketch to use HTML to make is accessible to all users Sighted or Blind.
The chat area in iSketch is already a hypertext markup, but perhaps because it's embedded in the Shockwave movie a screen reader would miss it. Done a quick search for Macromedia/Adobe compatible readers, and this one came up:

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/

Good luck

I just think most of you need to get a heart and grow up.

Of course if this gets deleted and I loose my account I don't care b/c it's not worth it. You all are nothing but immature and deserve what is coming too you.

Go play in the mud to all of you, who can't see lilvoices was caring about someone different!!!!

Umm - I think I am offended at the abhorrent misuse of the word F***ing. Surely you mean grow the F*** up? Where on earth did you learn to swear? Send me a PM and I will teach you the finer linguistic arts of swearing.

Look all juni and lilvoices want is a change so blind users can use isketch dont yell at them

Ladies i support you 100%

Nobody was YELLING - see the CAPS LOCK BUTTON - if you leave it on, then THAT IS YELLING. We were voicing opinions and should you choose to agree or disagree, then that is up to you. No need to accuse anyone of YELLING - well except maybe me now.

As it has been stated before in this thread, as well as in others, all of your suggestions should be sent to feedback (info@isketch.net)

iSketch is a pictionary game.. therefore not necessarily made for blind people, i don't believe that anyone that is registered on this site has anything against the blind, and it would be a welcome change for them to be able to play as well, but that is up to the owner of iSketch.. we as users (some admins) on isketch can not do anything to help you, try emailing feedback and see what they say

Well said my fine, drumming friend.

If Rob has the time and money and is willing to put in the effort to make iSketch HTML then so be it (at least the problems with flashplayer could possibly be sorted) but as iSketch belongs to him, then feedback is the only option in order to possibly ask for a modification to get over the shockwave / flash player aspect for those sight impaired folks. Hell, maybe I could even get my dad to play it then. He loves a good mental challenge. (No that's NOT what he calls me!)

They need to make a seperate page for blind users to chat that doesnt use flash just html

They don't need to do anything.

As had been said already, iSketch is designed for the game; not chat. And it has to be said that the design of the actual game appeals to the widest selection of people possible. Look at the number of languages: from English to Afrikaans. Look at the number of speciality rooms: animals, science, politics. There's even the option to create a room yourself and you can send in your own wordlist.

iSketch, the game, has done a tremendous job of looking after a wide range of players interests.

Since it is apparent that Isketch is not interested in making things better for the impared! It is visible to see this in all of your words and are quick to just say go else where! Just stop and think about how easy it truely is to loose thought of anoughter person and just think on it! Why no any three day old idiot would know a blind user can not see flash for 1. The thought just the thought of setting a room for them would be truely amazing so blind users dont have to feel like live stock and hearded else where for 2! But least of all It is amazing to see how places like this will never be larger than mIRC really think about it when you push away the thought of even trying to set it active for all! Thank you have a nice day! Anarchist since for some reaqson I could not register at your place so I will see myself like the blind users are off else where! I mean I hope there to be no offense by my words here!

This is an iSketchforum, for iSketch players. If you have complaints regarding this issue contact feedback on the iSketch games site for assistance/advice with all the details. I'm sure they will do all they can to help, if it's possible. I'm not offended by anything you said, nor would anyone else be i shouldn't think. You are free to frequent whichever sites you please. I understand that iSketch is a very popular site and has a high volume of players and a lot of people use it for the chat function and not just the games. I'm sure feedback will understand this.

Those who went against her and said it's not for the blind because he/she cannot see what was being drawn, "Well NO FLYING ********" that isn't what lilvoices was asking about. lilvoices was asking for a friend who is blind join her in a SOCIAL room. Yes, there are chats all over the internet. I just think most of you need to get a heart and grow the*********up.

Of course if this gets deleted and I loose my account I don't care b/c it's not worth it. You all are nothing but immature ******** and deserve what is coming too you.

*********** who can't see lilvoices was caring about someone different!!!!

I appreciated what lilvoices was saying... as I think a lot of people did. This outburst did nothing to strengthen the argument. If you keep your posts like the one that came after this a positive response is more likely. :biggrin:

/me signs up for Bad_MaNneR$ class on the lingustic art of swearing.

the main page of Isketch is shockwave and blind people with Jaws or Linux people cant use it

I use linux and i cant get past the main page

Not familiar with Jaws, but Linux users can obtain CrossOver from http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/ which should allow shockwave compatibility.

I use linux and i cant get past the main page
Fortunately, there are already ways for Linux users to play iSketch! What are your hardware specs, and which distro are you currently using?

Ches, just saw your message - I was considering the wine approach, although that product you linked to looks superior :razz:

Ahh... JAWS. The screen reader. Looking it up a bit, version 4.5 had flash compatibility, but it got fubar in further releases. The latest, 6.1, I think had those bugs fixed though.

the main page as in the log in page or the page with the music?

Why should i have to download extra software

Crossover and Wine are slow as heck why not just make it all HTML and remove the Flash so all can access it whether they use Windows/Linux or are blind

And i cant get past the main login page

Blame Microsoft and the monopoly they have over the OS market. If you want to use free open source software you've gotta take the rough with the smooth. You don't get everything for nothing.

Plus... to play iSketch it requires downloading extra software.

I don't imagine a game like iSketch is simple or if it's even possible to code in html.

I Blame Shockwave not Microsoft

Lets not forget one important fact - iSketch doesn't cost us, as players - anything.

I'm finding the attitude of 'The world owes me everything' in this thread very difficult to cope with.

iSketch is just one game on a super-highway. I can't access iSketch on the weekends or evenings because of my ISP but you don't see me telling the world it owes me. I just feel priviledged that I can access it for the few hours during the day.

Take it with a pinch of salt. It's not a paying service, as nice as it would be for you to access it, you can't have everything.

Why should i have to download extra software


Now this attitude is not a good one! Why should I have to download any software to play any games or keep having a reminder that Java needs an update or two now and again? It's because I do so that these things work.

It's a bit like asking why some blind people have to use a white stick when the government should perhaps commission railings up around every city with Braille in places to let you know your co-ordinates. What I'm trying to explain here is that we have to do things to help ourselves sometimes. I think Ches, sense/net and element have been extremely helpful in suggesting options that might help but still I have to reiterate that you need to contact iSketch feedback regarding your problems because this is a forum where iSketch players come to chat with other players. As far as I know, this forum has no influence over how iSketch is set up etc.

Heaven forbid that we'd have to start paying to play iSketch should they change the format etc because, although they may gain blind players or other disabled players, they would lose me (valuable player!!! 3rd best player in the World, as proven in the tournament!:biggrin: ) and a few other players too.

Another question from me... Why don't you just have your blind friends play pictionary with you... your answer would probably be the same response you get from feedback.. iSketch is not primarily used for chatting therefore it should not have to change for a very small percent of people that would want to use it for just that.. chatting, if you wish to chat with your blind friends online, why not find a suitable chat organization for them..

Sorry if i sound harsh or blunt.. i just don't understand why you keep arguing the same thing over and over

It is true, the same discussion is being dragged out, and going round in circlces, sadly. Hopefully that will be the end of it. Just contact feedback, mate. I wish you the best in that. :)

I Blame Shockwave not Microsoft

Why should i have to download extra software

Crossover and Wine are slow as heck why not just make it all HTML and remove the Flash so all can access it whether they use Windows/Linux or are blind

And i cant get past the main login page

the main page of Isketch is shockwave and blind people with Jaws or Linux people cant use it

I use linux and i cant get past the main page


me, lilvoices, and juni all know a few blind people that would love to come here but there screen readers wont read pictures or flash text. That is why we would like ISketch to use HTML to make is accessible to all users Sighted or Blind.


rob_west the suggestions that we have given you are to the best of our knowledge, if you wish to keep asking the same questions you won't get anywhere, we as players only know so much about the game..

please email feedback

and also when you get a response im sure all the members here would like to know how it went for you :smile:

I have to reiterate that you need to contact iSketch feedback regarding your problems because this is a forum where iSketch players come to chat with other players. As far as I know, this forum has no influence over how iSketch is set up etc.

Where do I submit my suggestion, isketch needs more cowbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBqPHJhmFHo

I have come across someone who is a blind user with programs to be able to be online but cannot use isketch due to the flash or whatever that is involved....
.
.
.
.
.

All very valid points. Welcome to the forum btw. I know this is perhaps late in the discussion, but i'd like to reiterate that we're only a player community, we do not own nor control any aspect of isketch. It's nice of you to raise awareness of such issues to the community at large, and that you make debate out of it, but you may accomplish more by mailing isketch feeback at info@isketch.net

I just returned to see what last replies were made to this topic, and for all of you saying to go to feedback, I did before i even came here.... and you want to know what i got for an answer?... might as well say nothing because the person who replied seemed stupid and never grasped the concept it was for a blind user who uses a JAWS machine!

reply i got: Hi and thanks for writing to iSketch feedback.

If she goes to settings, she can turn off the sounds so they do not interfer
with her other program.


and when i stated more about it i got this: Hi your friend may be having problems with their Shockwave plugin.

I recommend that they first try to clear his browser cache and reload the page.

If he is still having problems, try to use the Shockwave uninstaller to remove
it from his system and then do a fresh install.

The uninstaller is available at
http://sdc.shockwave.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

If reinstalling still does not work, you will most likely find the source of
your problem - and how to fix it - here:

http://www.macromedia.com/support/shockwave/ts/documents/playerfaq.htm

Hope this helps,

So, I don 't want to hear again, i mean read again to email feedback about the issue i mentioned. Bye and i'm done with this thread.

So, I don 't want to hear again, i mean read again to email feedback about the issue i mentioned. Bye and i'm done with this thread.


this kind of attitude wont get you anywhere.. we were just throwing out suggestions, but as this being a forum for players the people on this forum cant do anything regarding your problem

sorry

I just returned to see what last replies were made to this topic, and for all of you saying to go to feedback, I did before i even came here.... and you want to know what i got for an answer?... might as well say nothing because the person who replied seemed stupid and never grasped the concept it was for a blind user who uses a JAWS machine!

There is no need to be calling that person stupid. At least be grateful that they took the time to answer your concerns. They could have quite happily ignored your email, but they didn't (please also bare in mind that not everyone receives replies). You weren't happy with the reply, but that it's certainly not fair to go off calling them "stupid" for it. Gratitude is everything. It was probably just a miscommunication between the both of you. Which, by the way, is very easy over the internet.

If you emailed feedback and weren't happy with your reply, I personally don't understand why you were talking about it on the forum then. No one can help with that, as we've all said plenty of times.

So, I don 't want to hear again, i mean read again to email feedback about the issue i mentioned. Bye and i'm done with this thread.
What other suggestions could we possibly give you other than emailing feedback? This is out of our hands, friend. Other than that, it was just going to be an open discussion that wouldn't get anywhere, sadly. Please do not show bitterness. We all suggested what we found was best. And hopefully you'll stick around, there are plenty of other aspects to explore on the forum. Cheers

........ might as well say nothing because the person who replied seemed stupid and never grasped the concept it was for a blind user who uses a JAWS machine!.............

..........So, I don 't want to hear again, i mean read again to email feedback about the issue i mentioned. Bye and i'm done with this thread.

Oh so because the poor bugger who replied (AND who is most likely a VOLUNTEER) isn't an absolute technophile and doesn't know absolutely everything about every possible incarnation of some computer that helps blind people operate in an artificially created environment designed for sighted people, you draw the conclusion that they are stupid?

How wonderful it must be to be perfect.

Don't let the cyberspace door hit you in the arse on the way out!

So, I don 't want to hear again, i mean read again to email feedback about the issue i mentioned. Bye and i'm done with this thread.

If you find that nobody's started an initiative for your concerns, then start one youself and stop asking everybody else for one. Be a leader. I hope you find what you're looking for.

i've been reading this thread & the resounding "words" in my head are HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. this is ridiculous. i feel lilvoices on the "thinking of someone different" thing, but honestly. :rolleyes:

Just stop and think about how easy it truely is to loose thought of anoughter person and just think on it!

that right there? crap. iSketch is pictionary. to be able to play this game, you need to be able to see. Rob has spent his own time & money building this game to what it is today. i don't remember who said it but i'm sure "he didn't expect an influx of blind people" is right!! if you truly want someone to completely recode a game that's existed for years to have a non Flash chat feature, then take some classes & do it yourself. instead of just posting on a forum, go do something about it, take action. if you're not willing then let it go. it's not happening. you've gotten your point across, kudos to you. now move on.

please.


EDIT: i didn't get a chance to get to the last page before posting this, so i'm sorry for reiterating the idea of 2.0. but my point is still valid & i stand by it 100%.