If you thought the forum was getting to be rather quiet, maybe it's time to bring the debate thread back to life! :D


Here's the article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8480161.stm). To sum it up: France is considering banning Muslim women from wearing full-face-covering veils.

What do you guys think of this?

Personally, I think the reason the article quoted from the report ("a challenge to our republic") is not a good enough reason to ban the full face veil.

I think labelling it a "radical religious practice" is also absurd, because really - who defines what "radical" is?

However, although the BBC article does not mention the report saying this - I do see the potential for terrorists and lawbreakers to take advantage of this religious practice for the wrong purposes: they could easily wear a burka and you couldn't even tell if they were male or female - their identity would be conveniently concealed and no one would be suspicious about the costume.

At a time when the world is on edge about security and safety, we need to be more alert and cautious, but at what cost? (a related safety topic is the full body scanner)

Over to you.

Imo, I think this would be a violation of religious freedom, or right to religion, or whatever its termed. And to quote from the article, "This divisive approach is a denial of the equality between men and women..." I would rather call it "minority" rather than "divisive". Talking of this type of equality, even school uniforms are different for boys and girls. Isn't that against the republic? Agreed, the face veil is used as segregation in many countries. But banning something that people wear by choice (in countries like France) is probably against democracy? (On a different note, the origins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa#History_and_Islamic_culture) of burqa appear pretty worthwhile to me)

And to address your issue of false/hidden identity, storm, I guess we'll have to live with that. Because there are so many identities that could be easily compromised. That includes all uniform bearers in law enforcement and the armed forces. A terrorist clothed as a policeman is far more dangerous than one wearing a full face veil. Oh, and its France after all, the mime artists! And maybe circus clowns, surgeons, people who wear face masks against airborne diseases, costumed artists, and maybe Hallowe'en. When there are so many places to hide, and I doubt anyone would go for the obvious one.

Coming back to the main topic, the ultimate choice resides with the government of France - democracy or republic?

I remember seeing somewhere, I don't recall where but it was some UK newspaper, Sarkozy saying that he wants to ban the burqa because it was a symbol of the subservience of women and that it isn't right that they're told what they have to wear. I love the thought that the government then telling people what they can and can't do helps to prevent any feelings of subservience. Another argument often thrown about in favour of this ban, much to my confusion, is the fact that France is officially a secular state. I think that it's taken by many to mean "no religion", whereas I'd think of it more as "religious neutrality", so in this case the banning of the burqa goes against the secularism; in the name of neutrality, it's none of the government's business what religious traditions its citizens choose to partake in. Effectively, there should be religious freedom.

Basically, I can't help but feel that this is another "France for the French" sort of policy. He and Besson, the immigration fella, have already toughened up on immigration laws, not only making it harder for people to go there but also expelling those who are already there. Sarkozy seems to have a bit of an obsession with national identity and wants to preserve it, and maybe he views foreigners and their customs as a threat to this.

Oh, and as for the terrorism... Islamophobia is rife in France. I don't know to what extent wearing a burqa would help to avoid suspicion; if anything, people would be automatically suspicious of somebody wearing a burqa, I would have thought.

What if a bride wearing a veil is being married for a religious occasion at a church?

I suppose a balaclava can be used instead

I think the reasons why they want to ban a burqa are valid. They are basing their decisions on the premise that in many places women are forced to wear burqas or other head coverings. I am not sure that a happy medium can ever be found.

Personally, I think that if a woman wants to wear a burqa in France than more power to her for practicing her religious beliefs. At the same time, I also think women who work in high security zones should not be allowed the wear the burqa. Then again, I am not sure that women who practice such strict religious beliefs would be working outside the home. I also think that women who wear burqas would need to meet the same requirements for photographs as any other person in their country.

In America, for instance, there are many women who wear head coverings (although not face coverings) for religious reasons. Typically they follow faiths like Amish, Mennonite or Apostolic. Amish shun modern society and typically do not have any type of legal photograph as photography is not allowed by their religion. If they need to travel beyond their community they can hire drivers, or take public transportation like buses and trains. No one would dare tell an Amish lady to remove her head covering.

I do not know that any solution can be found that will please everyone.