I'm not trying to get unbanned because the ban helps me not play while at work...I have my home computer to play...but..

I got banned for "needing to learn some manners and netiquette" with no warning or anything...it seemed the admin just didn't like my argument.

Here's the deal I got plane as my word. So being clever I drew a picture of the twin towers and a plane heading towards it. Offensive? No more than seeing it on the news. The argument was that I could have just drawn the plane... My argument was that I could have, but why not be a bit more creative?

PERMANENT BAN!

In that case why draw a whole desert when the word is a cactus? or why draw a bride if the word is groom?

Anyway, just asking to tone down the drawing would have sufficed...but I guess a power trip is a power trip...

I totally agree with what you're saying. I call it creativity, others call it time-wasting. But I don't get it, you're given a set amount of time - if you can draw the word or get people to guess the word in that set amount of time THEN WHO CARES.

As for the ban, I do not know what your actions were like beforehand.

If you DO however want to rebuke this ban, email info@isketch.net, this forum cannot help you with bans but WELCOME anyhow :)

Here's the deal I got plane as my word. So being clever I drew a picture of the twin towers and a plane heading towards it. Offensive? No more than seeing it on the news.

Is that ALL that was drawn?

Not directed AT you or anything, but generally speaking, I often wonder just HOW much of the story is explained when people talk about their drawing.

I have witnessed some pretty creative drawings over the years - not the least of some having been my own - and most of the ones me and my friends draw, while being creative and doing a 'whole picture' are done with no offensive or potentially offensive material in them. We're a group of punners...so our pictures can get VERY creative - we just know to NOT do something that can be construed as offensive. There's lots of room for artistic creativity, even in the public rooms, but remember to keep within the rules. If one wishes to draw outside of those rules, they have the option of opening a custom room, where they may be as creative and/or offensive as they wish, with their own rules.

I hear what you are both saying. The issue was that I didn't agree that I had to draw JUST a plane. I put it into a context. It seemed that I was booted for arguing that point with other PUBLIC members of the room. The admin didn't even have the decency to talk to me in person or identify themselves...

Plus the image wasn't in detail: two rectangles which was clearly the twin towers and a plane heading towards it....oh yeah smoke was coming out of one of the towers. :p No penis' or boobs...

There are some admin's who just won't hear your side of the story and that ♥♥♥♥s me.

Lol Soul :P

Okay, here is the deal, admins are there for a reason, so please respect them. It IS their choice of what they consider rude/offensive or just anything else. All decisions made by admins are final -as stated in the rules [unless there seems to be a mistake] which in your case it was a good decision.

There are many people in the US rooms that have possibly suffered from the 9-11 attacks so if I saw your draw, personally I would have voted. Regular users in the game have the right to vote for the reason of keeping the game safe and enjoyable.

On the note of the admin not even showing themself to you, that is completly his/her option. If an admin wants to stay hidden they carry that right.

In the issue with a ban, admins do not choose weather to kick or ban or block the system is set up so that users with warnings and kicks will soon enough be banned, if you were banned it was because you HAVE had many warnings and kicks on the system or the computer you were playing has, you should be glad you have a personal computer at home that is not banned as well.

I reccomend you read the rules and follow them this time. The admins decisions I back up 100% so please remember we here on the forum respect them.

Edit: Honestly, we dont know the full story because we were not in the room, as you could have been using “CAPS”, or being rude, or you could have possibly drawn letters or porn before.

Welcome to the forum!

Perhaps the issue was that you chose to draw a pic of a particularly sensitive subject? A lot of players were affected deeply by the twin towers tragedy, not sure they needed to be reminded about it in such a way....the issue of detail is a non issue...players are actively encouraged to add as much detail as possible into the draw using the time available to them, it's even mentioned in the rules.

The issue was that I didn't agree that I had to draw JUST a plane. I put it into a context.

True, iSketch loves players with creativity, especially if you have to draw an easy word like plane. Making a drawing slightly more elaborate breaks up the monotony and allows for diverse and different drawings. It's great for people to show off their artistic skills. This includes those of us (*cough* me *cough*) who slightly lack in this area :P:

Normally if I get the word "plane" in an Easy room with new players, I do just draw a plane. Nice and simple, most people would get it.
If, however, I wanted to make my drawing into a scene, I'd just draw a plane in an airport, inside a hangar or up in the sky, somewhere it is normally seen :)

The issue was that I didn't agree that I had to draw JUST a plane. I put it into a context.

Putting your word into 'a context' is just fine...the CHOICE of context is clearly what the problem was here. I'm sure it would be a similar outcome of your word was 'hand' and you drew it in 'a context' with the hand wrapped around a penis. Sure, your given word would be in the picture, but the rest of the picture would be enough for a possible ban. Keep it in perspective please.

I completely disagree with the "sensitive" subject matter. If you are sensitive to a particular subject, then YOU should remove yourself. Admin's have the right to judge whether a rule has been BROKEN, not BENT. The objective of the game is to get the players to guess the word - that is all.

No offence, but why are you even placing '911' on the same page as 'hand in penis'? That's ridiculous!

There is NO rule stating that you must be culturally aware of peoples beliefs and values. GROW UP GUYS.

Thanks Snack...I is all growed up. And in my view (and possible many others), the example above is not necessarily ridiculous.

People play iSketch to have a good time, not to be offended or disgusted. I'm sure that not only includes the chat/banter, but the pictures as well. If someone in the room is offended by a certain drawing and votes, an admin will investigate. If it is deemed to be an offensive drawing, I'm sure the admin is allowed to take action.

Growing up isn't the problem here...taking into consideration other people's feelings is. Offensiveness is a personal perspective thing, usually. However, there are some things that seem to upset many people...and others also need to be sensitive to that possibility. As has been said so many times before, if people can't act/play/draw within the rules (and that includes the courtesy ones!) they they have the opportunity to open a custom room...easy, really...and they can still have fun.

I meant no offence, I was just astounded by the ridiculous remarks.

I agree about courtesy.. but in this case, there was nothing done wrong. (I'm not including what was said in chat, just the draw). One has seen 911 TEN, I repeat TEN years ago on the NEWS which is WORLD WIDE. He cannot simply recreate the scene? This is bull♥♥♥♥.

Firstly, a one handed man could take offence to a 'Hook' word being drawn as 'Captain Hook'. This is the same, not penises. And this is ridiculous.

Secondly, growing up is the problem.. if you are not mature enough to ignore the underlying meaning to a draw that OFFENDS you because it RELATES to you (which would be 10% of the room) then YOU should create your own room, there was NOTHING done wrong in the draw. I feel like I'm repeating myself!?

Thirdly, this guy has said there were NO WARNINGS made.. so obviously NOBODY felt as if the drawing was that bad that it required a warning. The player was kicked for other reasons of which I would understand.

Fourth, UCR's are not suitable for new players. No-one would join their room.

I cannot even continue arguing this point to stubborn people. Again no offence meant, I am as stubborn as they come.

I cannot even continue arguing this point to stubborn people. Again no offence meant, I am as stubborn as they come.

:lol: Ya fink?
__________

Cheeky bugger! :P <3

First off, if drawing the WTC attack (without any intention of ridiculing) is considered offensive towards the victims/people affected, what about those affected by plane crashes? Even if you choose to draw something like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/PlaneR.jpg/800px-PlaneR.jpg) for plane, there will be someone affected by a friend/family member who committed suicide because he failed his geometry paper.

The point I am trying to make, without being too insensitive, is that one disaster affecting a particular city/nation is not something sensitive to everyone who plays iSketch, which is international. I personally cringe at people drawing surfboards on a big wave for tsunami or a darker skinned man with a turban and a beard for terrorist. (The second one is actually considered racist and is against the rules, as is drawing stereotypical people). I have drawn the plane-crashing-into-the-towers scene for the words terrorist/terrorism, for one, I didn't know what else to draw, and two, if there was no intent on ridicule, wouldn't just drawing it be a tribute to a tragedy? A way to remember it...

Back to the beginning, I would consider the ban as one of those rare <insert unoffensive word for error/mistake> by an admin, who like the rest of us who play the game, are only human, and have to deal with quite a number of <insert offensive word for error/mistake>s who log on. This is on the assumption that this is your only offence, Harry.


Edit : Yeah, I took a while on this page, something might've been posted in that interval

The drawing could hit certain people's sensitivities, considering that you depicted what could be construed as one of the most epic acts of mass violence in recent history, one that has had a decade's worth of repercussions, sparked hatred and fear all over the world, forever changed public opinion in the US, made everyone's life in airports utterly miserable and has left afghanistan littered with bodies from all sides. And considering that the 10th anniversary is coming up in about a week and a half, i'd say your timing was poorly chosen.

I can see why the admin took action though not sure about why it was a ban, but then again, as isnack2.0 already said, i don't know how you have behaved so far either. But his advice is solid, contact feedback and try to explain your motif there, maybe they'll listen.

Back to the beginning, I would consider the ban as one of those rare <insert unoffensive word for error/mistake> by an admin, who like the rest of us who play the game, are only human, and have to deal with quite a number of <insert offensive word for error/mistake>s who log on. This is on the assumption that this is your only offence, Harry.


Edit : Yeah, I took a while on this page, something might've been posted in that interval

Actually, it's not for us to 'consider the ban' at all...it's for the player, and feedback (who will hopefully speak with that admin concerned). NONE of us (apart from the player, Harry) knows whether there have been prior offences or any other behaviour that may or may not influence a kick or a ban, if they indeed do, even. I somehow doubt, when players mention their bans on here, that they give full and complete details. If it was indeed one of those "rare <insert unoffensive word for error/mistake> by an admin" then let feedback deal with it and let's stop hassling over something we have not control over, especially as we're not privy to the processes, whys and wherefores.


Cheeky bugger! :P <3

Who, me? Gosh no...I is pure! :lol:

Ah yes, bad wording on my part.

*pulls out the 'English is my second language' card*

And no hassling from me, just a opinion (yes, bad wording on the previous post)

Ah yes, bad wording on my part.

*pulls out the 'English is my second language' card*

And no hassling from me, just a opinion (yes, bad wording on the previous post)

Sorry sweets...I didn't mean YOU were hassling either...so maybe I need to pull out a 'English is my only language and sometimes I'm not very eloquent' card :lol:

I don't think anyone is hassling anyone else really, it's an interesting story that has brought about an equally as interesting topic of discussion :)

Perhaps if the World Trade Center is drawn, there may well be a difference between an effigy and an offensive drawing. If, say for instance, there is just a plane with the towers and nothing else, that would be regarded as a instance in history in my opinion. But, if you were to add too much detail like smoke, fire and people jumping etc. then that would push it too far, again in my opinion :)

I'd like to discuss you, db ;)

I agree with you though, apart from the smoke and fire part... that was history. But if Harry was to have drawn people being exploded or on fire, then it is a slightly different story.

I wonder if Harry has the offending draw Screenshot? :o

I'd like to discuss you, db ;)

:lol:

I agree with you though, apart from the smoke and fire part... that was history. But if Harry was to have drawn people being exploded or on fire, then it is a slightly different story.

I wonder if Harry has the offending draw Screenshot? :o

We do agree on there being a possibility of going a step too far though :)

I'm sure I said this on another thread, I think the word "terrorism" should be removed from the wordlists if it hasn't already been.

I slightly disagree with Snacks on some points, and sorry but I can't really be bothered to go back and quote them all.

Most users who draw a scene depicting 9/11 know that it is a sensitive subject, and that it is likely to garner such a reaction. While people can remove themselves, they shouldn't necessarily have to, and users ought to respect that some things (like penises also) should not be subjected to others on the drawing board.

And yes, while it may have happened 10 years ago, you have to remember that almost 3,000 people died. Not only is 3,000 a lot, but most of those people would have had family members and friends who all got dealt a blow by their loss. So when you take that into account, that's a whoooole lot of people who've been affected. And in something as brutal as the attacks, it will always be a sensitive topic for some, despite how many years have passed.

And the repercussions of the event are still widely felt, and still affect so many people.

So yeah, while creativity is encouraged, it is always within reason. Use your time, make the most of the tools available, and create a masterpiece. Just preferably one that doesn't represent an awful historical moment that killed many lives.

And just because people are aware of how others react to such an event where drawing it really only does more bad than it does good, and deal with it as they see fit, that does not make them stubborn.

And while courtesy is not a rule per se, it's one of those things that you'd expect from most people and should be able to expect. And it's not even necessarily a matter of being culturally aware, it's just exercising your better judgement and not drawing a sensitive topic or event in history. Just use your brain and put yourself in someone else's shoes.

And I know that it might seem a little OTT for an online game, but that's just how it is some days. It is a global game, and due to such diversity there is always going to be something that will offend someone. But if you know it's a particularly sensitive topic or that it's likely to upset someone, then just take a minute and think. Or go ahead and draw it, just don't come and complain about the repercussions.

Sorry if I've repeated some people's points, I just wanted to stick my own two cents in.

Anything could be a 'sensitive' subject.
They do not have to remove themselves, they can simply choose to not participate in that draw.
Millions of people die from smoking, but we do not stop drawing this?
Stubborn.
I agree and perhaps that is why NOBODY warned the draw, because Harry had already pre-examined the users and found that nobody could have been affected by 911 that much that it would break them down into tears... courtesy goes as far as the people who it is given to, take it.
I agree about the complaining part.. Harry was obviously banned for other reasons.
Thank you for your thoughts and I apologize if I appear rude.

Wude...who's being wude? Not seen no wudeness!

In my humble opinion, comparing people dying from smoking to people dying from an extreme act of terrorism that affect probably most of the population of the world, in one way or another, is perhaps a tad...ummm...out of context. But that's just me :)

It's not though. It's something that affected a massive amount of people. Obviously affected some more than others... so does smoking... so it is well in context.

In your opinion, Snack...just as mine was my opinion. It makes neither of us right, nor wrong. It just makes us....ummm...opinionated! :lol: And individual :biggrin: and I am happy to agree that we disagree :smile:

Okay, just a quick wrap up...thanks for all the imput and snack, wow you had steam coming out of my ears, probably soul's too...but all is well now...

Lets just remember as we play the game that we all love, that everyone should be careful of others feelings, we all know admins are just trying to help as well.

If you are banned, it is not because of one thing, we are not stupid so we know you HAVE got warnings before.

In your opinion, Snack...just as mine was my opinion. It makes neither of us right, nor wrong. It just makes us....ummm...opinionated! :lol: And individual :biggrin: and I am happy to agree that we disagree :smile:

That's what YOU think! :P :P :P :P :P :P

This forum will not be closed. And it is up to the forum moderators to choose when to close the thread, mate. No offence, but ♥♥♥♥ me dead, Junior.

Heck no...no steam coming out of my ears. This was, and still is if people see fit, a good debate with some interesting points raised. Nope, I don't necessarily agree with them all, nor some people of mine, but that's what open debate is about and so long as it's not abusive or personalised, it's healthy and fine, in my opinion. I see no real reason to close this thread at this stage - and yes, the moderators of the forum will decided that anyway.

Snacks, cos I'm SO dumb (haha), does that ♥♥♥♥ bit mean mean 'love', cos yeah, I still luvs ya! :lol:

It definitely means this for you Souly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :P :P

Wow...that's a LONG swear word! :lol:

Swear word!? :o Never 0:)

More like a 'loveword'

I think it's just common sense that if you get the word ' stone' you do not draw a person stoning another person to death.
I think if you get the word 'plane' you do not draw anything that has to do with 9/11.

I don't think admins will warn you if you are crossing that line, they will just remove you, as you don't seem to make the choice yourself to think if it's offensive to other people or not. I think iSketch rather have players who do make that choice.

I personally cringe at people drawing surfboards on a big wave for tsunami or a darker skinned man with a turban and a beard for terrorist. (The second one is actually considered racist and is against the rules, as is drawing stereotypical people).


This is not actually against the rules, as I have been having issues with a player who draws just such a theme for EVERY draw :/ I am the one to get into trouble for voting it :(

I just read this and should say that I do not think that a ban should have happened. I usually do not side with iSnack (sorry buddy, but our views are usually very different) but on this one I have to.

Also though- I wonder if the argument made by the player helped draw the ban on more than just the picture.

(oh and if the pic had people jumping etc as mentioned above, yeah thats crossing the line)

What's happening here? I haven't read all the discussion. I realize there is some difference of opinion? Some differ? Why in the ♥♥♥♥ won't iSketch let me reply?!

Ooops, I meant the Forum!!!

LOL Ouch...how can we explain 'what's happening here' when it would involve all that has gone before. Why not just read it? :lol:

I think it's just common sense that if you get the word ' stone' you do not draw a person stoning another person to death.
I think if you get the word 'plane' you do not draw anything that has to do with 9/11.

I don't think admins will warn you if you are crossing that line, they will just remove you, as you don't seem to make the choice yourself to think if it's offensive to other people or not. I think iSketch rather have players who do make that choice.

It's not common sense... it's common sense that your aim is to get the players to guess the word... why shouldn't the artist be able to draw whatever they please without breaking any rules and without going to extreme... which you did with "stoning someone to death" - I have never seen this, it's usually a "stoned" draw - which is an illegal substance in most of the world, so why is this not frowned upon? You know why? BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DRAWING IT LIKE THAT.

This 'line' is in your imagination, and I apologize on behalf of every player out there who adds imagination to their draws.

I just think some admins shouldn't abuse their powers simply because they do not like what is happening in a room when no other player has said a single thing. Need to be less trigger happy.


P.S. <3 Jmac.

why shouldn't the artist be able to draw whatever they please without breaking any rules and without going to extreme... which you did with "stoning someone to death"

Hey Snackeh, I think Clau was merely providing an example of what is advised not to do. Although currently you could draw a person being stoned, it may offend someone in the room resulting in a vote. Similar concept to the twin towers drawing.

This 'line' is in your imagination

I think this somewhat metaphorical line exists in all of us, and it also varies from person to person. When it comes to these (shall we say) "borderline" drawings, admins don't usually come into the room unless they get a vote, which usually means someone is offended by the drawing, in which case I imagine they could take action.

All of us here can't say much about the particular reasoning for the ban this time, (we don't know what happened, it's the admin's decision, of course) but perhaps it might be wise to suggest a possible update to the improper conduct section of the rules?

Improper conduct: Deliberate drawing of unrelated and/or sexually explicit/racist images; giving out the word in any way; harassing other players; using offensive language directed at other players; impersonating an iSketch administrator by username choice or otherwise.

Currently the rules don't state explicitly (although it may be implied from the harassing other players bit) about particularly graphic drawings of terrorism. Obviously the event itself is a part of history now, however I personally think that if the drawing is excessively graphic and/or someone feels offended and votes, then admin action is necessary.

Just to end my post on a hopefully slightly happier note. Although many people died as part of this act of terrorism, there are those who died to save lives. Perhaps an alternative way of drawing the events of 9/11 is to dedicate the drawing to those who unfortunately passed on that day and to their families, and draw the scene from a positive point of view such as the firefighters working together to save lives. Just an idea :)

However, I do think if you get the word "plane", drawing a plane on its own is far much easier :)

I like how you say "similar concept" and not "the same concept" :biggrin:

Yes it does differ from person to person, that is why not the whole of iSketch should suffer from one persons ignorance OR misfortune.

I'm not debating the ban, simply fighting for the freedom of creativity.

I also think that terrorism can be defined to something as simple as placing a thumb tack on your teachers chair... it was a big and bad day in everyone's history, it should not disappear and neither should the drawers choice to draw whatever they feel will get players to guess.

*Rinse & Repeat*
*Rinse & Repeat*

I just think some admins shouldn't abuse their powers simply because they do not like what is happening in a room when no other player has said a single thing. Need to be less trigger happy.


Let's all take a minute to take in the concept that most players who were banned do not share the 'full' story. Since we do not have any proof that the user did not recieve a warn or a vote, we do not know that is true. The player could have not told us 'the other side' of the story. If that admin is on this site and you would like to clear up the actions please do.

Also, we dont know for sure that the admin is trigger happy as, all that could have happened is a skip and the player argued causing rudeness and then be kicked. I do understand both sides of the debate, but since we don't know the full story we should not go about saying the admin was wrong. Please respect the admin, because we dont know the story and the player could have had a record of drawing hurtful things.

I can insure you one thing, and that is...if the player was banned that is because he has had many votes or warnings before, for the admin can not just boot the system is set up where there needs to be many previous infractions.


But if there was an accident, do remember all admins are human so they do make mistakes, and if it was one most of the time feedback, Rob (isketch owner), or the admin that banned will investigate the ban and possibly fix it.

......If that admin is on this site and you would like to clear up the actions please do.


I doubt any admin would discuss the specific details of a player's lead up to a kick or ban or whatever...even IF they were prepared to acknowledge they were the admin who actioned it...which, of course, is nobody's business but that of the owner of iSketch and the admin - not every Tom, Dick and Souly's. I'm damn sure if I was kicked or banned (heaven forbid!), I wouldn't want it to be pulled from one side to the other, debated in the open, judged upon by others and generally shredded to pieces...not anywhere, let alone here, which is NOT the place for such disputes, diagnoses, and slanging matches about who is right or wrong in a certain instance. There must be a certain amount of confidentiality involved...and as has been said SO many times before, specifics and disputes need to be taken to feedback.

But if there was an accident, do remember all admins are human ...

They are? I thought they were robots! :lol:

But seriously, I'm sure every admin makes mistakes...but I doubt they enjoy them! And I'm sure they atone for them...or at least I HOPE they do.

Currently the rules don't state explicitly (although it may be implied from the harassing other players bit) about particularly graphic drawings of terrorism. Obviously the event itself is a part of history now, however I personally think that if the drawing is excessively graphic and/or someone feels offended and votes, then admin action is necessary.

I don't think it's implied from the harassment section at all. Really, if people vote a picture because they find it offensive without it breaking any rule, they're just using their own idea of what the iSketch rules should be. And admin action (assuming you mean against the artist) shouldn't be necessary since what is offensive is so subjective. I think if someone genuinely finds something offensive the healthiest thing to do is just wait until the end of the draw and tell the artist, since they may not even realise their drawing could offend people (especially with a wide range of cultures on iSketch). The artist shouldn't necessarily be obliged to do anything though.


here, which is NOT the place for such disputes, diagnoses, and slanging matches about who is right or wrong in a certain instance.

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with an iSketch forum having discussions about whether a specific event (hypothetical or otherwise) is acceptable or unacceptable. In fact, I think it's often useful for people to share and (re)consider their opinions on iSketch conduct.

This is by far, imho, the most interesting discussion the forum's had in years. Please keep it on topic.

let alone here, which is NOT the place for such disputes, diagnoses, and slanging matches about who is right or wrong in a certain instance. There must be a certain amount of confidentiality involved...and as has been said SO many times before, specifics and disputes need to be taken to feedback.

SoulAngel, i disagree with you, i think this is precisely the place to discuss such things as it opens up a window for players, admins, isketch owners, etc to read and participate on what is going on because the ban is a little controversial... and generally stuff that goes to feedback generally stays between feedback and the plaintiff. This topic is juicy :twisted:

I'd like to ask you HarryPooper, have you contacted feedback? And if so, have you gotten a response? What was the response?

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with an iSketch forum having discussions about whether a specific event (hypothetical or otherwise) is acceptable or unacceptable. In fact, I think it's often useful for people to share and (re)consider their opinions on iSketch conduct.

This is by far, imho, the most interesting discussion the forum's had in years. Please keep it on topic.

SoulAngel, i disagree with you, i think this is precisely the place to discuss such things as it opens up a window for players, admins, isketch owners, etc to read and participate on what is going on because the ban is a little controversial... and generally stuff that goes to feedback generally stays between feedback and the plaintiff. This topic is juicy :twisted:

I'd like to ask you HarryPooper, have you contacted feedback? And if so, have you gotten a response? What was the response?

Fair comments - I think I may have written my thoughts wrongly though, which imply that I don't like to see this debate. That's not what I meant at all. I think this IS a most interesting debate and discussion. It has raised some great points of view, and I am not judging any of them to be right nor wrong.

I just wouldn't like to see, personally, 'the picture' displayed here and then judgement being made whether the admin (or the player, of course) was right or wrong, because it possibly wouldn't portray 'the whole picture' anyway, given that if there were any other contributing factors, we don't know them.

I'm all for healthy debate - it keeps people on their toes, and can even help deliver some good suggestions for consideration for future 'tweaks' to rules etc.

It's not common sense... "stoning someone to death"

I just want to chime in here and say that this particular example I did not find to be common sense and don't find in any way shape or form offensive. I would be very confused if I drew it and was kicked/blocked/banned etc for it. I think this just shows that differences in culture can lead to differences in what is deemed acceptable. Do we really want to live in such a nanny state environment where everything is censored? Or would we rather be able to learn and adapt to other cultures in the world?

P.S. <3 Jmac.
Woohoo!
admins do not choose weather to kick or ban or block
Is this true? I have never heard that before.
There must be a certain amount of confidentiality involved...
Transparency leads to a better understanding of why things happen. If things are kept in secret those in power are more likely to abuse their power as they have less of a responsibility to answer as to why they did it. Even if most do not abuse this (which I believe most are good little admins), an instance of abuse, or a disciplinary action taken without explanation only leads to more distrust of the authority. Transparency can bring about trust and consistency.

I believe that this discussion was initially brought about because of Harry's post and his post only. He has decided to post here with his information, knowing at first that we are a public (and later down the line as a non-affiliate of iSketch) forum. I see it that from the time of posting, we, as the forum community, have been given permission from and are able to discuss Harry's ban within the rules of the forum just like any other thread. So personally I say transparency is sometimes good for open player discussion, but in this case the amount of official knowledge given to us is based on how much information from Feedback that Harry wishes to divulge.

I really don't think we would get an official public response here on the forum at least until Feedback's response has been communicated to Harry himself (this is his ban after all), and even then Harry might not want to communicate the details of the e-mail, that's his choice.

Back on topic (ish?): Isn't the whole point of this thread to discuss why this ban is controversial and to suggest ways in order to prevent such confusion happening again? I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

With respect to the rules, whether or not something implicitly states or whatever, there is nothing in the rules that specifically states about graphic forms of terrorism. In my opinion, what differs between, for example, the small penis in the Trevi Fountain and full-blown pornography is how graphic it is. The difference between, for example, two black or white skinned people and a offensive racist drawing is how graphic the drawing is. Perhaps the 9/11 style drawing could be considered in a similar way. If you are depicting what could be defined as "9/11, the historical event", where the plane crashes into the building, but then add detailed drawings of people jumping out of flame-filled buildings, I think that would be on the same level of graphicness as someone drawing an racist image showing lots of Jews being burned during the Holocaust. One of these, at present is clearly defined as a "don't do it", the other is what is currently being debated here. Again, just my thoughts.

I agree, db. I do feel as though having an open Forum would be great for this sort of thing, but there are also a lot of cons. The ban appeal should be kept in info@isketch.net aka private.

We are indeed awaiting Harry's response. There should be no debate about the picture..

Plus the image wasn't in detail: two rectangles which was clearly the twin towers and a plane heading towards it....oh yeah smoke was coming out of one of the towers. :p No penis' or boobs...

..as I'll say ONCE more - the ban (from what Harry has said) was about his reaction to the admin (who obviously does not like being questioned), not the image itself. I smell a power trip :3

Isnack, I have been going against you on this whole debate, now I finally see it. The draw is the question, but you are right the discussion with the admin did in fact get him banned.

The point I would like to mention is for everyone to be aware that admins are trying to help, and with a skip on the draw that seems like a reasonable thing, do you guys agree? But when there was admin conversation with you, harry was there rudeness, what made the admin upset? Now I am looking at this openly I just would really love to know is there a screenshot because I would have loved to see the full story before being so much against your situation. I would like to apologize for any rudeness that might have seemed to come from me. I just highly respect the people and their families in my country and it being so close to the big anniversary it is a sad time for some.

Best of luck though working out the problem.

...but you are right the discussion with the admin did in fact get him banned.


And how do you know that is the case? Were you there? Did the admin tell you?

Point here being, it's not wise to make judgements without the facts. It's not wise to say something is fact, when you don't know if it is.

We don't know if the admin banned Harry for the drawing, for any exchange he had before or after the drawing, or whether it was a combination of both. Even Harry hasn't given all the facts, methinks...and here we all are debating the issue...interesting.

I got banned for "needing to learn some manners and netiquette" with no warning or anything...it seemed the admin just didn't like my argument.


SoulAngel, I know we dont know all the facts but based on what harry told us we need to go over the things he has told us, due to not knowing exactly why he is banned I guess we will have to stay on the topic of, should the admin have skiped or taken action for the drawing because thats all we know so far.

But lets remember that the user decided to post on an open forum so us talking about his actions was decided by him as stated before.

Also, he should have known after the skip if he knew the rules, which iSketch states by playing the game iSketch expects you to know them, and they state all admin decisions are final so no need to argue.

I am sorry if i upset you, my thoughts are not focused on a person just an idea and not meant to upset anyone.

Nope, I'm not upset in the slightest...just stating that we shouldn't be making direct statements that we cannot substantiate without pure facts. :smile:

Wow, so I just read through of all this...Since I don't think any New Yorker has posted yet, I'll give my two cents and maybe try not to be TOO repetitive, though you've all brought up some really great points and opinions.

I've been in the room before where an artist drew the exact scene as HarryPooper and people were upset and stormed out, and other times where it was no problem.

Personally I am not offended by the draw, and while it may have been to provoke a reaction out of the room, I agree that its just an historical event, same as any other. The Twin Tower Tragedy is very real to me, and I'll never forget it...and while it is a very sensitive subject, I don't think its something that should be banned or against the rules.

I've seen someone go as far to tell another player "Go crawl in a hole and slowly die there" after one of these draws, as if they were responsible for the event, so I could see how a situation like the one HarryPooper was in could escalate to the necessity of a ban, if players go beyond "respectful discussion".

While the stoning/stoning person to death scenario seems okay to me, I'd have a problem with players drawing other players in harmful situations....There's probably a rule against it...but it brings up the difference when playing with friends and with strangers....what's a joke and what isn't...and how its the admin's difficult responsibility to have to decipher and decide every unique situation. While I love to see "Hippo" draws, and have a collection of them, seeing a hippo drawn jumping out of the World Trade Center would certainly be 'much' (Not implying this is what Harry did, just that its an occasion where something isn't necessarily explicit or vulgar, but maybe a violation...).


Anyway, guess we just have to wait for Harry's response from feedback...sorry if what I said was pretty much just a repeat...

Anyway, guess we just have to wait for Harry's response from feedback...sorry if what I said was pretty much just a repeat...

Not at all, mate. All points of view are welcome, and yours being more 'close to home' is a great help.

Isnack, I have been going against you on this whole debate, now I finally see it. The draw is the question, but you are right the discussion with the admin did in fact get him banned.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I find it most interesting how assumptions are made based on one side of the story.

Isn't anything down to 'intent' and 'intent' can only be determined by being there at the time and knowing the context in which it was drawn along with comments from offended players or the artist.

A reporter said of the stories he covered just recently:

"Even the media does not know where the truth stops and
the propaganda begins."

So a sum up :

An admin WILL act if the intent of the artist is construed as intending to disrupt the game or offend other players. Admin make NO apologies for that, they want our good players to stay on the site, and they want NEW players to feel comfortable enough to become regular players.

PS:
Whether that be a picture of the holocaust, SPECIFIC terrorist acts, abuse, racism or similar, they should not be tolerated in a public room.

PS:
Whether that be a picture of the holocaust, SPECIFIC terrorist acts, abuse, racism or similar, they should not be tolerated in a public room.

What if the word is 'holocaust' ? This can be drawn in a non-violent way. I don't see ANYTHING wrong with drawing it or specific terrorist attacks... as long as it doesn't include abuse or racism or go too far.

Sometimes assumptions have to be made when only one side of the story is told - and by no means was anyone saying that the admin was in the wrong by banning Harry.

'Intent' can misconstrued ESPECIALLY by admins...

Admin make NO apologies

This is true for 99% of the time.

G'day iSnack lovely to hear your reply.

It's not about 'violence'. While my personal views differ vastly from most on here, we have to remember that man-made disasters are different to natural disasters. Someone mentioned earlier in a post that drawing a 'surf-board' might be offensive to some because someone they knew had been hurt/killed by a tsunami.

Mankind live on this planet knowing full well we are at the mercy of natural events and sometimes even devastating disasters.

Here in NZ we of course have had earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, weather bombs. Christchurch alone has had over 7,000 aftershocks from our large earthquake. Now if someone drew someone dying in an earthquake or an eruption would ppl be offended, not likely because when you draw a disaster there is no face or name to the people you draw, it's basically a very general 'draw.'

But when it comes to man-made events and even worse disasters as in SPECIFIC terrorist attacks, when you draw people for instance, falling from one of the towers, it is a very real person with a name, history, profile and family who are still grieving. There is a very real risk of someone connected to an individual being drawn actually playing on iSketch. The other thing of course is that you are in effect 'empowering' the mindset behind terrorist attacks.

Anyway just my thoughts on the matter, you of course probably won't agree. That's all good.


Re: assumptions - I need to re-read this thread I am SURE someone made the assumption that the admin concerned was in the wrong. Maybe I misread - my bad.


Intent is usually backed up by the comments of the artist after or before the draw - only someone present can see those and then determine accordingly.

This is true for 99% of the time.


Oh I beg to differ :) I have had apologies from admins (not all) many a time. I think most recognise their mistakes and are happy to accept responsibility for them. (they are human, after all...not the robots many think they are! lol) Yes, some may not apologise, but if they are adminning anonymously, they probably also don't wish to 'blow their cover' by apologising out of the blue. If they are NOT adminning under cover and they're not forthcoming with an apology for a mistake, then that's more a reflection on them, not on ALL admins.

G'day iSnack lovely to hear your reply.

Hi Nuka :) Lovely to have your reply too! <3

I agree fully with what you said about it being more personal when it's not a natural disaster. :smile:

I would continue to argue my point using fact upon fact that humans are the cause of a lot of the natural disasters that occur (global warming, etc.), if not the cause of the disaster itself - they are the cause of deaths (stupidity, bad judgement, bad placement, bad timing, bad buildings, etc. etc.). Therefore leading us to believe that we are in fact responsible for/partake in all forms of disasters.

BUT I will stop here, and just say that if the HISTORICAL EVENT includes simple stick figures in the plane (pilot) or bystanders and not people dying, etc. then I would accept that as a typical draw, would you not?

RE: Assumptions - if the assumption was made that the admin was in the wrong, I missed it :lol:

I also agree on intent, the arguments were not suggesting otherwise.

@Soul - I've received an apology from a lovely NZ lady once ;) Was hilarious :P

But as I said, 99%, not ALL :P AND 99% of the time they are indeed anonymous, which shows their character... not only do they not like being wrong but they will not even step forth and attempt to listen to a player that is being wronged by the said admin. There are several of these power hungry and thick-skulled admins, which I personally have already emailed feedback several times about.

Snacky, I am sorry to hear about any thing that might have happened between you with some admins but I wanted to assure you that there are good admins on the game.

Now I am friends with a lot of admins but I am semi-personally close with a few of them. But I wanted to let you know that you will always run into an admin that seems rude or careless but I can assure you they do care, you just picked a bad time or even day...as of Rob's style of admins that he picks are always great at some time and they will always try to help. They just want you to be patient and soon enough have a problem dealt with.

But again, admins have different personalities, and with that can come conflict. Because everyone can have issues with certain people, in the case of that happening I reccomend you just try your best to stay positive with them and hope the personality explosion does not happen.

Good luck and thanks nuka, I agree 100%!

There are indeed several good and level-headed admins on iSketch. And I think most regular players know who they are, and trust that they'll use their admin abilities appropriately. This doesn't mean everyone who becomes an admin is going to do so. There have been plenty of instances where 'admin powers' have been abused. Whomever appoints the admins can't possibly know for a fact how said admins will behave until they're 'unleashed' into the game to do their thing. It's been stated several times in this thread alone that admins are human; not robots, and are therefore not perfect. It's not necessarily a matter of simply catching them on a bad day. No doubt some admins have abused their power, and its not so easy to accept their actions on account of 'all admins care and are always right'. This isn't always the case.

That being said.. I am by no means making the assumption that the admin was in the wrong in HarryPooper's case.

But I wanted to let you know that you will always run into an admin that seems rude or careless but I can assure you they do care, you just picked a bad time or even day

I think it's kind of insulting to iSnack2.0 to suggest this, and tbh you come across as a bit delusional.

There are indeed admins who don't deserve their position, but I won't bother hijacking the thread further.

I reccomend you just try your best to stay positive with them and hope the personality explosion does not happen.

They don't give you a chance, mate. I do realise that Admins are simply players who have volunteered to help out, but I do believe they also have a code of conduct? Can someone link me to this if it exists, please. I am oh so interested.

Thanks to the above replies, they are geonius points.

you just picked a bad time or even day

How is it the players fault that they are in a bad mood? Why should the players have to suffer? The Admins should do what they volunteered to do and help out the whole community, or family as I sometimes like to call it.
It takes a second to get permanently banned by an Admin who is having a 'bad time or even day'. And while emailing info@isketch.net is useful, it shouldn't have to be used in some cases.

That being said, there are quite a few amazing Admins in the game and they do a great job. I'm sure they know who they are ;)

Everybody has bad days - players and admins alike...life's like that. While it might affect us as players (to which we, as players, need to take the responsibility if we do something wrong DURING that period) , it surely CAN'T affect how an admin reacts/acts/actions (while they personally have a bad day), as they should be impartial to things, and action ONLY that which is necessary. If an admin is having a bad day, and is feeling as though their admin actions may be affected by this, would it not be a great idea to log off? Take a break? Put feet up? Have a beer? Meditate? Chill out?

Take a break? Put feet up? Have a beer? Meditate? Chill out?

Obby, now you talkin' ! :wink: :P:

I agree though, by all means stay on iSketch, but just don't log in as an Admin if you're in one helluva grumpy mood! :lol:

Why are you so lovely, Soul? :embarrassed:

Aww...you smoooove talker you! It's just in my naycha! :lol:

I does gets mad sometimes, you know! :wink:

Aww...you smoooove talker you! It's just in my naycha!

I does gets mad sometimes, you know!

Hahahahahaha. I have seen this Anahera mad, and it ain't pretty! :lol: :P:

Hahahahahaha. I have seen this Anahera mad, and it ain't pretty! :lol: :P:

:lol: It ain't that bad! :twisted:

G'day iSnack,

Just a lil point on Admin conduct.

Admins are players who have a history of heeding to the conduct set out in the rules.

This code of conduct continues to be the code by which admin play and admin by. The same as all good players should. There is not one rule for one group and one for another in regards to conduct.

Hi Nuka,

There should be one for admins. Or maybe a flowchart for those who aren't that bright.
Eg.

Did the user draw a penis?
Yes - Has the user been kicked recently? Yes - Block for certain amount of time. No - Kick from room.
No - Why has the user been voted on?

ETC.

Too many Admins neglect their duty as a volunteer to make iSketch a better place for ALL, they do it for themselves.

Too many Admins neglect their duty as a volunteer to make iSketch a better place for ALL, they do it for themselves.

That is your opinion iSnack. My experience on isketch tells me otherwise.

That is your opinion iSnack. My experience on isketch tells me otherwise.

No offence but you have no idea who I'm talking about, buddy.

No offence but you have no idea who I'm talking about, buddy.

But it seems like you're judging ALL the admins when surely you'd only be talking about a few at most?

There are some really lovely admins out there who genuinely volunteer to help keep the game running as smoothly as possible for the benefit of all players, not for themselves, and who do it to the best of their ability.

So while I am not saying that your opinion isn't entirely unwarranted, I do think it is a little unfair to the admins who are as I described above.

I said "too many Admins" - there was no specific number, nor was there any hint of "ALL Admins".

One Admin doing this is too many.

That being said, there are quite a few amazing Admins in the game and they do a great job. I'm sure they know who they are ;)

No offence but you have no idea who I'm talking about, buddy.

Non taken but your statement was pretty broad and seemed aimed at admins in general. I suggest you refine your statements.

No thanks! :biggrin:

Personally I haven't had any trouble with admins at all... except that one time I drew letterspaces and was blocked for 30 minutes :embarrassed: That block was earned though :lol:

*cough* Are we going off-topic? :wink:

I wonder if Harry has got his reply yet?

http://i.imgur.com/ETond.png

Drawn for the word 'building'...

...and not a single f*** was given... WITH an Admin lurking/stalking the room.

Not only does this draw have a plane and a person falling from it, but it has a frickin' astronaut wearing a suit as the bell boy! CMONNNNNNN

Interesting how we haven't heard a lot from Harry in a while, yet 'his' thread is causing all sorts of issues. I wonder h ow Harry's getting on.

Probably attempting Wingardium Leviosa to lift his ban?

Probably attempting Wingardium Leviosa to lift his ban?

:lol:

Or maybe he is the victim of being confunded

Snacky, you are being closed off. This is a wide range for a debate but the way you are responding is unnecessary and very rude, Why don't we try to be nice? Especially when we are here to Help!

Snacky, you are being closed off. This is a wide range for a debate but the way you are responding is unnecessary and very rude, Why don't we try to be nice? Especially when we are here to Help!

Those comments are perhaps a little unfair and directional, methinks. I can see Snack's point. While we don't necessarily all agree on certain things we are all entitled to our own opinions, without being told one is rude and/or closed. (unless, of course, they ARE rude and I haven't seen any particular rudeness, myself...just frustration.) Of course, everyone has differing perceptions as well. So perhaps we should all be a little more tolerant of each others views, and a little less 'personal' with the replies...would that be a fair comment?

Snacky, you are being closed off.

Soz bro, exit only!


While we don't necessarily all agree on certain things we are all entitled to our own opinions, without being told one is rude and/or closed. (unless, of course, they ARE rude and I haven't seen any particular rudeness, myself...just frustration.) Of course, everyone has differing perceptions as well. So perhaps we should all be a little more tolerant of each others views, and a little less 'personal' with the replies...would that be a fair comment?

I like this. Debates can get fiery and emotional! Makes it exciting! ;)

http://linehollis.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/debate109.png

Ok this thread is seeing too much nonsense. Please bring it back on topic, or the thread will be closed.

Yeah I don't think Harry can get his flying car started.. do it.