Hello again,

I was just wondering if anybody has ever heard of the story of man called 'John Titor' ?
It may seem very crazy at first, but I suggest you look it up and read it, it's really interesting. There's a brief description of his story on Wikipedia if you search his name 'John Titor.'

Once you've read it (or if you already have), could you tell me if you believe his story or not? It's extremely interesting once you dig deeper in to the story! :razz:

Since most of his vague predictions and all of his specific predictions failed to come true i say shens.

Well... I googled John Titor and read a bit about him as instructed :razz:

Interesting stuff - I love things like this. The main problem I have with this is that if he is a what he purports to be - a solider from 2036 charged with getting back an old IBM computer - I would have thought that whomever sent him would know that he 'leaked' this information by now and done there damndest to poopoo all these supposed predications before they happened. That's the problem with time travel :razz:

I personally believe that it was someone who was caught up in a little fantasy world, that rapidly spun out of control and consequently, debunked.

Thanks for the intrigue though :biggrin:

Since most of his vague predictions and all of his specific predictions failed to come true i say shens.

Yes, but some say he prevented most of the "disasters" from happening. I guess we will have to see if the Summer 2008 Olympics get cancelled, which is his next prediction.

Also, the "people" who sent him for his "mission" of obtaining the IBM computer wouldn't have known a thing, because he states he would have only left his timeline for a mere few seconds.

Ah, but there's no way in proving he prevented anything, so there's no point debating it.

Another issue comes up, is the term "worldline". Apparently since he's from another time, he's from some parallel dimension with an alleged "1 or 2% divergence". Since he's from another worldline, he has no way in knowing which events from his worldline would happen on this one and which won't, so that makes his claims as real as Nostradamus' predictions or the stories told in the bible, it's all subjected to everyone's individual perspective.

After all... time may not exist (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time)

Yes, but some say he prevented most of the "disasters" from happening. I guess we will have to see if the Summer 2008 Olympics get cancelled, which is his next prediction.



Of course some would say that - just like some would say there are aliens etc.



Also, the "people" who sent him for his "mission" of obtaining the IBM computer wouldn't have known a thing, because he states he would have only left his timeline for a mere few seconds.

...and here lies my problem. The internet is like one huge reference library. What's to say that in 2036, we have huge archives. Something as big as the Olympic Games or "Civil War in America" would obviously be of great historical reference in 2036. So imagine the CERN's surprise when - it has been stated on their historical references all those years that the China Olympics were cancelled - and then they weren't? Or there was an American Civil War - but then there wasn't? I think I would have smelled a rat by then. ...and then, all I would do is search for any 'leakages' and, as us Brits would say - Bob's your uncle.


Ah, but there's no way in proving he prevented anything, so there's no point debating it.

Another issue comes up, is the term "worldline". Apparently since he's from another time, he's from some parallel dimension with an alleged "1 or 2% divergence". Since he's from another worldline, he has no way in knowing which events from his worldline would happen on this one and which won't, so that makes his claims as real as Nostradamus' predictions or the stories told in the bible, it's all subjected to everyone's individual perspective.

After all... time may not exist (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time)


Exactly 2.0 :biggrin:

And your link has now piqued my interest even more! Why do you do this to me??!! :mad: :razz:

Another geek kid craving attention...thats a new one.:biggrin:

Ah, but there's no way in proving he prevented anything, so there's no point debating it.Tell me, why is it still being debated 7 years on globally?

...and here lies my problem. The internet is like one huge reference library. What's to say that in 2036, we have huge archives. Something as big as the Olympic Games or "Civil War in America" would obviously be of great historical reference in 2036. So imagine the CERN's surprise when - it has been stated on their historical references all those years that the China Olympics were cancelled - and then they weren't? Or there was an American Civil War - but then there wasn't? I think I would have smelled a rat by then. ...and then, all I would do is search for any 'leakages' and, as us Brits would say - Bob's your uncle.

I completely agree with you and 2.0; time may not exist, but no one can be sure or prove it.

TempusFugit, I'm unaware why you are referring to CERN in your post. CERN is not the company which John claimed to be sent from, and CERN do not (or will not) keep track of past events (as claimed by John).
Read this, it is an exact copy of just one of the posts he made:

The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)

Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.

Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not. The last bit seems to be a reply to your post.

If he's claiming to be from 2036 then wouldn't he be being born somewhen soon?

He is born, however nobody knows if 'John Titor' is his real name.
When somebody from the initial postings asked him 'Is it your real name?', he replied with 'It is a real name'

Hmm... thanks for the direct quote there popups re: CERN - perhaps I misread it slightly wrong. However, I still stand by my point - be it CERN checking or whatever Agency who asked him to go back.

It is still my opinion that 'John Titor' is a creation of someone who lives in this day and age and that conspiracy theorists jumped on the band wagon resulting in the proverbial snowball starting to pick up speed. I am going to research this further (thanks :twisted:) and expand on my thoughts later.

If a time machine ever gets invented, it already has been invented.

QED

Hmm... thanks for the direct quote there popups re: CERN - perhaps I misread it slightly wrong. However, I still stand by my point - be it CERN checking or whatever Agency who asked him to go back.

It is still my opinion that 'John Titor' is a creation of someone who lives in this day and age and that conspiracy theorists jumped on the band wagon resulting in the proverbial snowball starting to pick up speed. I am going to research this further (thanks :twisted:) and expand on my thoughts later.

May I suggest you read all of the messages he originally posted.
They can be found on the Anomalies Network here (http://www.anomalies.net/object/titororiginalpost.html) (please remove the link if it is not allowed). The page is really long, and there is lots to read, but it really is very interesting.
And thank you for taking an interest in my thread :biggrin:

Link is allowed. Also see the website built for him, www.johntitor.com, there's an archive there as well as many interpretations of the author's writings.

Whether he's a time traveler or some geek with too much time, he moved a lot of people and he carried a good message that we as people would be better off paying attention to: avoid war, preserve resources, take care of nature and be nice to each other. You can't argue with that IMO.

I, personally, don't think I have enough to go on in order to say I believe it. He seems to negate any possibility of his being "wrong", or something else happening, by saying that he believes in the "Everett-Wheeler model of quantum physics". Well, if we take that as a given, then there's no arguing with him, because whatever he says will be true in some world, if not ours. Who is he to say, though, that that model is true? Anyone could say that model is true and make up a bunch of events and argue they're true somewhere.

Agreed with storm. And the everett-wheeler model is one of many interpretations of quantum physics, but strangely the only one where time travel is allowed without consequence.

By the same interpretation, the branching out of a new verse in the multiverse is subjected to every tiny change, thus making an infinite number of verses in the multiverse at each change. That's millions of possible changes every millisecond. Each decision creates as many verses as the amount of options the decision was made upon, so who's to say the 1975 IBM computer he was send to retrive is exactly the same as the one that existed n 1975 in his universe? All the decisions that led to the building of the 1975 computer created a new verse, and this made the computer different in each verse. You can't jump back in your own worldline, only through worldlines created by the decisions. So it is probable that even if he did get what he allegedly came for, it won't be much use since it's a different system to a certain degree.

Whether he's a time traveler or some geek with too much time, he moved a lot of people and he carried a good message that we as people would be better off paying attention to: avoid war, preserve resources, take care of nature and be nice to each other.
That probably was his intention all along, time traveller or not. We can't currently prove or disprove the Everett-Wheeler quantum model (although I remember in an experiment in a Physics lesson we were shown that when a photon of light has the option of travelling through two slits, it travels through both of them simultaneously, i.e. both outcomes occur :p), but it is a prerequisite for time travel into the past so Titor would have to support it.

As for his failed predictions, the reasons given that Titor actually prevented them happening himself (e.g. the Millennium Bug) suggests that he wields considerable power and with such power, surely he could've helped us out a bit more :smile:. All-in-all we can't conclusively prove or disprove his story, based on the evidence, but I just happen to be a sceptic :twisted:.

By the same interpretation, the branching out of a new verse in the multiverse is subjected to every tiny change, thus making an infinite number of verses in the multiverse at each change. That's millions of possible changes every millisecond. Each decision creates as many verses as the amount of options the decision was made upon, so who's to say the 1975 IBM computer he was send to retrive is exactly the same as the one that existed n 1975 in his universe? All the decisions that led to the building of the 1975 computer created a new verse, and this made the computer different in each verse. You can't jump back in your own worldline, only through worldlines created by the decisions. So it is probable that even if he did get what he allegedly came for, it won't be much use since it's a different system to a certain degree.

John claimed he visited our worldline and left his own, as he claimed in one of his posts, the IBM computer in our wordline could resolve the "errors" he would come across 2 years later in his wordline.
Sorry if my reply makes no sense, but I hope you get what I mean.

As for his failed predictions, the reasons given that Titor actually prevented them happening himself (e.g. the Millennium Bug) suggests that he wields considerable power and with such power, surely he could've helped us out a bit more :smile:John claimed he was forbidden to make changes which could do the following:


Prevent a person's death
Prevent natural changes in our worldline which could affect our future, not his

And some others which have nothing to do with my reply :smile:

John claimed he was forbidden to make changes which could do the following:


Prevent a person's death
Prevent natural changes in our worldline which could affect our future, not his
Simply by appearing in our universe he is causing events to occur differently than they would had he not appeared. So, like the butterfly effect, Titor does one action which causes something which causes something else etc. etc., thereby altering our worldline and perhaps even preventing a person's death. Also, if he stayed faithful to those rules, then his failed predictions truly were failed because he was not allowed to change them.

Simply by appearing in our universe he is causing events to occur differently than they would had he not appeared. So, like the butterfly effect, Titor does one action which causes something which causes something else etc. etc., thereby altering our worldline and perhaps even preventing a person's death. Also, if he stayed faithful to those rules, then his failed predictions truly were failed because he was not allowed to change them.

He did not change anything natural in our worldline (claimed by John).
However, he did meet "himself" at the age of 3, and the rest of his family.

Also, I stated that he was not allowed to interfere with natural changes in the Earth. This includes things like Global Warming and Earthquakes such as when they were going to happen.
Like I said, if you want to know more about this particular area of "rules" he must follow, read his original posting on the Anomalies Website. His posting should make you understand slightly better of what I mean.
Also, thanks for your reply, Capt_Sparrow

Global warming is natural? Wow .. someone tell the Government, they seem to tax everyone and claim it's "man made" ... :rolleyes:

Global warming is natural? Wow .. someone tell the Government, they seem to tax everyone and claim it's "man made" ... :rolleyes:

Um, we contribute to Global Warming, we don't "make" it

I just read some of his posts on the link (http://www.anomalies.net/object/titororiginalpost.html) popups provided - soooo many I can't read them all! I did read the "rules" he tries to hold to, in particular this one:

"I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals."

I can't see how he has stood by this rule. Titor claims to be a time traveller and if he has managed to convince somebody that he is one, he has altered their belief and has changed their future. In fact, simply by existing at this time, he has changed the course of our worldline forever; he does not need to warn us about earthquakes to do this because every action that an individual does affects everything else. So his "ethical" refusal to answer who will win a future sporting event (assuming he knows it) falls through because he is interfering with our worldline anyway. This suggests to me that he has bitten off a bit more than he can chew.

However, he did meet "himself" at the age of 3, and the rest of his family.

This one clearly goes against the above rule. Thanks for the links though popups, it was an interesting read :smile:

However, he did meet "himself" at the age of 3, and the rest of his family.

I thought for a second I was just watching Twelve Monkeys then. :biggrin:

Interesting thread... seems like nothing can be proven or not though, so a nice subject for debate.

Interesting thread... seems like nothing can be proven or not though, so a nice subject for debate.

You're absolutely correct. Thank you for reading my thread! :biggrin:

John claimed he visited our worldline and left his own, as he claimed in one of his posts, the IBM computer in our wordline could resolve the "errors" he would come across 2 years later in his wordline.
Sorry if my reply makes no sense, but I hope you get what I mean.

Makes a lot of sense. But AHA! how does he know this particular computer from this worldline would do it? Does he explain that?


John claimed he was forbidden to make changes which could do the following:


Prevent a person's death
Prevent natural changes in our worldline which could affect our future, not his

And some others which have nothing to do with my reply :smile:

By posting on a web forum and getting people interested and moving he's affected the natural changes in our worldline, and thus our future. Because remember, every decision, every action taken by everything and everyone in our worldline changes everything.

Makes a lot of sense. But AHA! how does he know this particular computer from this worldline would do it? Does he explain that?



By posting on a web forum and getting people interested and moving he's affected the natural changes in our worldline, and thus our future. Because remember, every decision, every action taken by everything and everyone in our worldline changes everything.

Yes, he does explain how he knows in one of his posts, but his answer is very simple (I'll try my best to find it for you).

Also, John's reason for posting was not to make people believe he was a time traveller, but to answer general questions a person would ask about a time traveller.

Oh, and sorry I put "wordline" in my previous post :eek: