We've heard and discussed the issue of a 13 year old becoming a father and how teenagers who have sex underage are breaking the law but nothing gets done about it.

Now People in higher places of society seem to be getting away with crimes too. Lord Nazir Ahmed of Rotherham was texting whilst driving at speeds above 60mph in the dark on one of Britain's busiest motorways. He crashed and a 28 year old man lost his life for his stupidity. Full story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7909510.stm).

I heard about this story in December last year because Yahoo! News mentioned he wasn't allowed to drive for 12 months yet he has not been sent to prison or anything. Now, just over a year later, Lord Nazir has been sentenced to 12 weeks in jail.

Do you think 12 weeks in jail is a period of time long enough for texting on his phone whilst driving, not to mention it was in the dark and he was driving really fast on a motorway?

In the UK we're constantly being bombarded with adverts about safer driving, killing your speed and not a child, we're being told "twenty is plenty", if we drive at 30mph instead of 40mph we reduce the risk of killing a child and so on. (Think! (http://www.dft.gov.uk/think/focusareas/invehiclesafety/mobilephones?whoareyou_id=))

If it was you in Lord Nazir's place do you think you would have got a longer sentence? Do you think Lord Nazir should no longer be a 'Lord' and what implications do you think this will have on his life when he comes out of jail?

I personally know Lord Nazir from an education awards ceremeony I helped at when in college and I contacted him when a bunch of students, including myself, were being deprived of some rights. After one phone call and email with him the college had given us all we wanted and I thought this guy was a good man. Back in December when I heard about this crash I was annoyed because although he was a good man, he did something wrong and wasn't being punished. Now he has been punished, I don't think the sentence is long enough. If it were any other person who was involved in a fatal car crash I would think they got at about three years.

In addition to this, everyone should know texting/chatting on a phone at the wheel is illegal yet so many people still do it. Why are people getting away with these crimes? Is the law becoming weak and is it all talk and no action?

Over to you.

Ahhh this is something that drives me mad. The poxy sentences that are handed out for crimes which deserve far more punishment.

I had a friend who was knocked over and killed by a speeding drunk driver, who then failed to stop. He owned up about 6 months after the incident, and got away with 5 months in prison for failing to stop, failing to report an accident and perverting the course of justice. He took someone's life and only had to spend five months behind bars. I find that appalling.

Conversely, and to me this just shows how ridiculous and unfair the justice system is, my brother got a longer jail sentence for burglary a few years ago. Now, my brother is a complete pleb and his jail sentence could have been twenty times longer for all I care, but to me the two sentences should have been the other way round. My brother didn't kill or hurt anyone and he got over twice as long in jail. Although, I suppose my brother's was the fairer of the two sentences, as the former one should have been a hell of a lot longer than it was.

Going back to the issue you mentioned with the Lord, it does make me wonder about how much special treatment they do get. If a person commits a crime, and they deserve jail time, then they should serve it like anyone else would have to. Just because someone is rich/famous doesn't mean they should be allowed to get away with criminal acts lightly.

As for texting/phoning in a car, it drives me mad when I see people doing this. It still happens far too much. I think people are aware of the laws surrounding it, but they just don't care or think they won't get caught. I suppose it's a bit like speeding - loads of people do it and most don't get caught for it so they reckon it's okay.

Now People in higher places of society seem to be getting away with crimes too. Lord Nazir Ahmed of Rotherham was texting whilst driving at speeds above 60mph in the dark on one of Britain's busiest motorways. He crashed and a 28 year old man lost his life for his stupidity. Full story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7909510.stm).


He had stopped texting about 3 miles before the accident. He hit a car that had already crashed (drunk driver); which was just sitting in the middle of the motorway.

The dangerous driving charge is totally seperate to the accident. Nobody died because he was texting.

People will never stop doing something just because it's illegal. Drivers are seriously cocky: people still commit driving offences because they don't feel out of control while doing them.

I think this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7865114.stm) might be more appropriate then. 21 months for hitting a stationary vehicle while sending a text message, they linked the times via phone records.

As for texting/phoning in a car, it drives me mad when I see people doing this. It still happens far too much. I think people are aware of the laws surrounding it, but they just don't care or think they won't get caught. I suppose it's a bit like speeding - loads of people do it and most don't get caught for it so they reckon it's okay.
I don't know if anyone else has them where they live but over here we have little smart cars that drive around with great big CCTV cameras on them. I've been told these are just traffic wardens who check whether people on double yellow lines and stuff but perhaps ths would be a much better way of catching those who text/chat whlst driving. I've never seen anyone get stopped for doing this and it happens way too much here and everywhere else in the UK. I've been so tempted to take a picture of people talking and driving with the reg plates. One day I will do it and I will send it on to whoever it concerns. I'd really love to know what will happen about it. Police cars drive by and even they don't notice people breaking the law. So again, why have the law there if you won't follow through?

As Hinty said about not FEELING out of control when chatting on the phone, that's just how they feel. I always see people swerving, speeding and very rarely going slower. It sickens me that they're never caught.

He had stopped texting about 3 miles before the accident. He hit a car that had already crashed (drunk driver); which was just sitting in the middle of the motorway.
In that time he also received five text messages... which he had obviously looked at and which ones he replied to we ave no idea. So he's been jailed for 12 weeks, for which parts of his crime exactly? The texting bit? Reading texts? Breaking the law? Or killing someone?

Let's not forgot that the article mentions a relative saying "He could be out in six weeks".

Would you be satisfied if it was one of your loved ones who was killed in this way? Putting aside the fact that he was drunk, crashed and still in the middle of the motorway which was facing oncoming traffic.

Edit: Agreed with Buffers. Thanks for the link.

Would you be satisfied if it was one of your loved ones who was killed in this way? Putting aside the fact that he was drunk, crashed and still in the middle of the motorway which was facing oncoming traffic.

You can't put that aside because that's the what caused the crash, not the texting. If it was someone I knew, I would not consider Lord Ahmeds texting the cause of death, and neither did the courts.

I do think, though, that death by dangerous driving and just plain dangerous driving should have the same charges, since they're basically the same thing.

It depends if you want the law to focus on protecting people, in which case banning him from driving will be just as effective as having him in jail and won't cost tax payers money; or focus on punishment in which case jail would probably be the way to go.

According to the article, Lord Ahmed's texting had no bearing on the subsequent crash and death of the driver, so I assume he was convicted of dangerous driving because of his texting rather than causing death. As for the other article (which has an almost identical headline), Curtis was convicted of actually causing death by dangerous driving due to her texting. I don't know the details of the cases so I can't really comment on whether Lord Ahmed got off lightly due to his peerage whereas Curtis didn't but it is alarming that so many people do use their mobile phones while driving, and how little is done about it, when it clearly does lower your concentration towards the road.

... Would you be satisfied if it was one of your loved ones who was killed in this way? ...

I would clearly not.

But I would not trust myself to make an objective judgement on something that I have a emotional connection with or personal interest in.

Well then is 12 weeks long enough for dangerous driving? How much more do we need to have "No texting when driving" shoved in our faces before we actually obey the law? He's someone in a place of rather high authority, he's someone we should all be following because he should also be setting an example for us. He shouldn't have been doing this to begin with and there really is no excuse for it.

Well then is 12 weeks long enough for dangerous driving? How much more do we need to have "No texting when driving" shoved in our faces before we actually obey the law? He's someone in a place of rather high authority, he's someone we should all be following because he should also be setting an example for us. He shouldn't have been doing this to begin with and there really is no excuse for it.
I agree there's no excuse for it and perhaps he should be stripped of his peerage because of his now criminal record. All jail time is relative though - 12 weeks is probably long enough for him to never do it again but it's not long enough to deter the general public to not do it. Should he (or anyone in this situation) be given a very lengthy jail term in order to not only deter him but also the public?

Personally, I think plenty of people are put off by the year+ driving ban; regardless of how long is spent in jail.

edit: although, I think there still needs to be an improvement in how likely you are to be caught, which is really the main factor that would put people off.

Just out of interest, if someone went to jail for a year and they had a one year driving ban, would they be allowed to drive that year they came out of jail or would they do that first year in jail and then come out and have a year of no driving?

I think the fact that the jails are kind of full these days has a lot to do with sentencing. If the court can see a fitting punishment without jail time that's probably what they'll go for, usually with electronic tagging and shorter sentences so the jails aren't becoming overly strained. It's not necessarily right but maybe it's what circumstances dictate.

I fully believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" way of handling potential law-breakers, but the number of actual convicted criminals who are allowed to be let out half way through their jail sentence I find absolutely absurd. Especially if these criminals have been jailed for violent crimes, what's to say they aren't going to do it again once they are free?

I also feel that jail sentences are becoming shorter every time I hear it on the news. This article (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lorry-driver-guilty-of-causing-familys-deaths-1623539.html) from the Independent newspaper talks about a lorry driver who killed a family of 6 after allegedly faffing around with a Satellite Navigation System or a laptop. He was jailed for three years. Also dangerous driving offences appear to be taken light-heartedly.

OK, the prisons in Britain are reaching breaking point but I don't think that shorter sentences are the way forward.

Nice thread, AJ.

It does tick me off that some people get lighter "sentences" than others. One in particular that really annoys me is footballers, because I seem to see it far too often in the news. I don't know much about actual footballers, so I can't give names, but I've seen so many news articles lately on yahoo where footballers have raped people, or just abused women physically, or get into a fight and attack someone, etc.. and you see it in the news for a day or two, and then that's it. Nothing gets done. I've heard a few times that footballers have got fines.. but, I mean, come on.. they can afford it! >_< Throw them in prison if they're guilty, 'cause that's exactly what the courts would do it if was a nobody off the streets.

Stupid so-called system that has "justice".

I think the fact that the jails are kind of full these days has a lot to do with sentencing. If the court can see a fitting punishment without jail time that's probably what they'll go for, usually with electronic tagging and shorter sentences so the jails aren't becoming overly strained. It's not necessarily right but maybe it's what circumstances dictate.

Sadly, it has come to that, which is annoying and unfair. :rolleyes: But then I wonder, why don't the government open up more jails then.. that way there would be no reason to make shorter sentences. I know it's not as easy as making more prisons, but surely that is the way forward to accommodate the high levels of crime, without letting people get "away" with what their real punishments should be.