Hey!

I will be buying a new computer in a few weeks and I am stuck with what to buy:

An Apple MacBook
Dell (with Vista)

To sum it up; which should I get?

A Mac or Vista PC?

I just got a Mac because they sold me the idea of no viruses and reliable Internet access. Also, PC games are starting to be introduced to Macs sooner and more quickly than they ever were before. Macs aren't known to lag; for example, you can have several powerful programs running at once and nothing slows down. Macs also typically have insane graphic cards, so the picture is always great (apparently), which is why graphic designers prefer Macs.

I recommend a PC entirely.

LOL Sketches!!

Woohoo! I use a Mac. Have done for the last.. um.. 4-5 years! And they ARE reliable. I haven't had a problem with mine (yet lol). But of course, like any computer, its time will come.

You've got to remember that Macs work entirely (sort of) different to PCs. The layout of the Mac system and Microsoft/Vista, etc is pretty different, and that's the part where people sort of give up on them. That said, it doesn't take long at all to get used to the different functions. All you need is a day.

I only recommend Macs to a certain group of people:

1. Graphic designers (students and professionals). It has helped me tons!
2. Students (because it doesn't die and crash a lot like your other regular computers. Urgh).
3. People who want a virus free computer.

Everyone else that I've spoken to about Macs don't really see the point in them.. so I have to say, they do suit some people better than others.

One other thing.. if you don't actually want a mac, but you want a virus free 'puter, etc. I'd suggest buying that Dell and installing Linux on it (for example). I've known people to do that because it's cheaper than buying a Mac. And again, they haven't had the problems they've had with Windows/Vista. Aaaand.. you can even have Linux and Windows on it! And it can be set up so that you have a window for Windows and a window for Linux. So if your window with Windows on it catches a virus, it only effects that window and you can close it down, and use just the window that has Linux. If that made sense. :|

The only only annoying thing that I find with Macs is that some applications/folders/files are not compatible. So you sometimes find yourself downloading things that you can't open, heh. Or receive things in email that you can't open (whereas, I normally could on a PeeCee). Oh, and the MSN versions for a Mac suck rocks. :rolleyes: But that's Microsoft's fault. :P

How much do I love my Mac? THIS much! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htTMup1N9xg)

Oh come on you can't compare an Operating system to a type of computer. That's completely unfair on PC's which are capable of far more then Mac's in the first place. Vista on the other hand isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So if I had to chose one I'd chose Vista because in this case Vista represents PC's.

Add to that you can always format it and install a better OS then Vista on it. How many different OS's that aren't released by Apple are you allowed to install on a Mac without breaking Apple's license agreements.

End result of my arguments is a PC is far more flexible and far cheaper too.

I just got a Mac because they sold me the idea of no viruses and reliable Internet access.
Oh and for the record, that's a myth. There ARE viruses for Mac's. Using a Mac is no safer on virus terms then using a PC running a *nix OS. The only reason there aren't really that many Mac viruses is because why target a OS that not many people have when you can target your virus at an OS that >60% of the worlds population has.

As for reliable internet access. Mac's are no more reliable for internet access then any other computer. Internet access' reliability depends on a number of factors most of which, the OS you use will have no impact on what so ever.

I have a Windows XP computer with a MITSUBISHI monitor.

I have no idea what I have....whatever my husband put together for me. A bunch of old parts from other computers etc. But it runs and gets done what I need it to so i'm happy!

My sister works for Apple and she is constantly trying to say why Apple is better etc. She does the whole "It's much more user friendly" which I have found by using her computer that that line is a bunch of bologna!!!! They are not more user friendly....if you are used to working with a PC then trying to figure out a Mac is completely confusing!!! It all depends on what you start out on. To me the PC is more user friendly because that is what i've always had and known! To others maybe a Mac is because that is what they have always known and are used to! Personally I will stick with my PC, that way if a part breaks down all I have to do is buy that part...not replace the whole computer like you would have to with a Mac! =P *Shrug* to each their own! =)

Oh come on you can't compare an Operating system to a type of computer. That's completely unfair on PC's which are capable of far more then Mac's in the first place. Vista on the other hand isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So if I had to chose one I'd chose Vista because in this case Vista represents PC's.

Add to that you can always format it and install a better OS then Vista on it. How many different OS's that aren't released by Apple are you allowed to install on a Mac without breaking Apple's license agreements.

End result of my arguments is a PC is far more flexible and far cheaper too.


Oh and for the record, that's a myth. There ARE viruses for Mac's. Using a Mac is no safer on virus terms then using a PC running a *nix OS. The only reason there aren't really that many Mac viruses is because why target a OS that not many people have when you can target your virus at an OS that >60% of the worlds population has.

Yes, Mac computers can get viruses, but at the moment none exist (which have been released). One more thing, Apple makes the hardware and software; Microsoft makes the software, but not the hardware.
I don't know about you, but I would rather have software which is specifically designed to work with the hardware, than to have software which has the "may work" and "may crash often" thing.

Yes, Mac computers can get viruses, but at the moment none exist (which have been released). One more thing, Apple makes the hardware and software; Microsoft makes the software, but not the hardware.
I don't know about you, but I would rather have software which is specifically designed to work with the hardware, than to have software which has the "may work" and "may crash often" thing.

To be honest software written entirely for specific hardware leads to at least one problem, cost. They usually wind up far more expensive. Software that covers more hardware can often be better in that you have more choices, and upgrade options in the future.

Further to that, seeing as Apple software only works on Apple hardware, that leaves Apple with the option of charging far more because there are fewer to no competitors. Apple are renowned for over pricing and bad value for money ratios with their products. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Apple products. Their biggest problem is they're way over the top on pricing. Way more then is really acceptable.

Yes, Mac computers can get viruses, but at the moment none exist (which have been released).

Exactly. And that's because it has nothing to do with the whole, "why target Mac users when they're the minority". It has more to do with the fact that it's harder to hack and send viruses because of the way the OS has been built. My brother-in-law knows the ins and outs of all operating systems and the way they're built, because he has to for his work, and based on what he knows and has said, it has absolutely nothing to do with people not trying hard enough to hack. It's because they can't properly in large destructive ways. Maybe one day it will be possible (to cause a massive problem with viruses), but right now it's not, and has been that way for many years; unlike other operating systems.

Everything else in terms of Apple prices, I agree with. It is a bit OTT. It's one of the reasons why I won't go out and rush for a new computer. I'm happy with what I've got because it does the job, and I've never had an issue with popups, viruses, crashing, slowness, random hibernation, etc. So in that sense though, I was happy to pay the price I did, because previously I've had PCs that didn't last very long. So far this has been well worth the money, though. So yeah, it is expensive.. but I'm hoping I won't need a major fixture or a new computer any time soon.

For the virus thing, it's true that Macs don't get viruses as often (yes, viruses for macs do exist in small quantity).

But honestly, viruses don't normally strike a computer if you don't go around asking for one (e.g. downloading from a shoddy file sharing service). I'm not saying not to download of course! Just make sure the file size for what your downloading makes sense, and download from sites that aren't known to be bad (oy I noticed I'm using a lot of double negatives recently). There are small things like advertising "spywares" that many get, but that's easily cleared up using an anti-virus program.

Macs aren't unhackable, and there are viruseseses out there for it.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/soa/Mac-OS-X-hacked-under-30-minutes/0,130061744,139241748,00.htm

Still, OS X is quite pretty and functional, and a MacBook pro runs ever so nicely. I wouldn't shell out for one though, when I can get a comparable spec Win laptop for half the price or less. A big failing of the Mac software I think, although I'm not sure if its still the case now(?), is that it allows root access to parts of the OS... which can be exploited.

Its a shame I can't get Leopard running on a PC... I'd pay for the OS just to play with it, but I wouldn't pay for the hardware.

Macs aren't unhackable, and there are viruseseses out there for it.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/soa/Mac-OS-X-hacked-under-30-minutes/0,130061744,139241748,00.htm

That was fixed a long time ago. I'm not sure why you call it "hack" though, as that is the wrong word completely. You should re-phrase that to "Macs can be compromised."

lol sorry I just don't like people who use the wrong words :embarrassed:

Oh, and thank you for all of your poll votes :)!

Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields: a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem; a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem; or a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable to them.

Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields: a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem; a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem; or a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable to them.

Likewise, compromise has several meanings, but only one (there are millions, but they all mean the same thing) in the technology and computer science fields: An intrusion into a computer system where unauthorized disclosure, modification or destruction of sensitive information may have occurred.

Hm, I admit I was wrong; both fit. I just tend to use the word 'compromise' all of the time because it has more or less one meaning when talking of computing, 'hack' (as you posted above) on the other hand has several meanings for computing.

One other thing.. if you don't actually want a mac, but you want a virus free 'puter, etc. I'd suggest buying that Dell and installing Linux on it
Just be aware with that recommendation that Shockwave doesn't exist for Linux if you plan on playing iSketch. To get iSketch running you'll either have to use a utility like Wine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29) that lets Linux run x86/PC-compatible code then install a PC-version browser such as FireFox, or alternatively install Windows itself into a virtual machine, see below...

And it can be set up so that you have a window for Windows and a window for Linux. So if your window with Windows on it catches a virus, it only effects that window and you can close it down, and use just the window that has Linux.Sort of... to get that functionality, one still has to be installed as the bootable primary OS (Linux in this example), then you can use software such as VMWare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vmware) or VirtualBox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualbox) to create a virtual machine (VM) - a full installation of Windows living inside a single file on your hard drive. This lets you run XP/Vista inside an application window on your Linux desktop, so yes, if it becomes virus-ridden you can delete that VM file and create another clean one. All the while Linux stays clean. BUT...

If that's the path you want to go down, and assuming it's within your budget, I'd recommend the MacBook because you can run virtual machines on that as well. I use Parallels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallels_Desktop_for_Mac) to run Windows XP as a VM on my MacBook Pro for access to stuff like AutoCAD that doesn't exist for Macs. It looks like this:

http://steiny.futariba.com/stuff/parallels.jpg

The Mac also stays clean without needing to run anti-virus software. The only nasties that exist (and a few DO) so far require you to manually install them, after being prompted to do so by dodgy web site pop-ups or similar - there still aren't any "catchable" like the myriad Windows can get with no user interaction whatsoever. Basically, the Mac gives you access to the best of both Mac OS X and Windows worlds.

Sort of... to get that functionality, one still has to be installed as the bootable primary OS (Linux in this example), then you can use software such as VMWare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vmware) or VirtualBox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualbox) to create a virtual machine (VM) - a full installation of Windows living inside a single file on your hard drive. This lets you run XP/Vista inside an application window on your Linux desktop, so yes, if it becomes virus-ridden you can delete that VM file and create another clean one. All the while Linux stays clean.

Thanks for the proper explanation. XD
I knew what I was talking about.. just didn't know the ins and outs of it, heh. I know hubby has pretty much had the same things done on his 'puter. It's cool. :)

/flirt your MacBook Pro :P

I'm definitely buying a Mac. I just want a computer which does what I want and doesn't have the "omg you're going to get a virus if you click this" and "buy this antivirus software now!"

Thanks for all of your replies; I really appreciate it :biggrin:

So which Mac would you choose? I don't use the computer for hardcore gaming, but I do use it for small ones on Game websites such as Miniclip. I'd be using it mainly for work, and of course I'd want it to be reliable. All you Mac experts: would the Macbook be enough for me?

With mac architecture looking like pc more and more every day, and OS 10.5 having bootcamp which allows you to run XP on an intel based mac, mac is the better choice. Macs also have better resale value, they don't lose their worth as much as PCs.

Dells are unreliable and are poorly constructed, and the customer service utterly blows. HPs and toshibas are better in that area but still, I would never ever own anything that's vista out of the box and that cannot be properly set up on xp.

If you're planning on a laptop, I'm sure the MacBook would do very good for you. I have a MacBook Pro and and an iMac desktop with 20" monitor. The MacBook is less $ than the MacBook Pro but it should handle all of your computer needs. If you like a desktop, the iMac is the best value and an all in one, computer and monitor, very reasonably priced and plenty of power.

If you get a new Mac, make sure you don't install shockwave 11 if you want to play iSketch. Get the shockwave ver10 full installer for Mac OS X.

Go here: http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

Scroll down till you find the Mac OSX shockwave 10 installer. Don't worry that the installer isn't under the Intel Mac thingie, it will still work for iSketch as long as your browser has Rosetta emulation enabled.

You Macbook and MacBook pro users put my little iBook to shame, lol. :embarrassed:

I own a 14" iBook G4. So I wouldn't recommend that, even though I've had no problems. I think Sierra has possibly covered the best recommendations in the Apple World. :) And it's better to go with the best stuff if you don't want to upgrade your 'puter in a looooong time.

At the time of buying mine, I just went with whatever, and though I would like something better, just for the fun of it (lol), I wouldn't until my iBook has done its time. Mostly because I get everything I need out of it, and it does its job well. Reliable, most importantly.

Have fun searching, popups!

I third pretty much everything Sierra said: if you prefer laptop, the MacBook should be plenty to handle what you describe, otherwise an iMac. The only additional recommendation I might make is a 2Gb RAM minimum; as always, if it's within your budget, just to future-proof it a little better.

If you're looking at desktops the 24'' macs are awesome. I love the monster size and the clarity of the image.

But you can get a mac mini for a relatively low price, just connect all your old PC peripherals.

Thank you for all of your help! One last thing, if you buy it from the Apple online store, it asks you if you want iWork 08 preinstalled. Should I have that for the extra money or should I buy Office for Mac 2008?

Thank you Sierra, MrsNerdinator, 2.0, Steiny, Sketches and Jobe (sorry if I missed your name) for the advice on which one to buy :razz:

I would check and see if there is a price difference in having iWork preinstalled or buying it later. You might want to see if iWork is something you like and/or need before buying it.

And I completely agree with everything 2.0 said. I forgot about the Mac Mini, they're awesome and if you already have a good monitor etc, you can save a lot of money.

The new iMac 24" is fantastic. Be advised that it comes with a glossy display and there is no option. So if reflection is an issue in your workspace, go check one out in a store before buying.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I've checked out iWork, and it has a lot of compatibility issues when transferring files to Office (for the PC). I wish I could buy a Mac Mini, they seem great but they wouldn't be good for portability.

One last thing (I promise this time!); would I need antivirus software? Norton offers one, but I'm not sure about it. I would be installing anti-spyware software for it, but will that be enough? What if a huge virus for the Mac comes along? :cry: Do Apple tend to fix security issues quickly or use Microsoft's method of waiting for a huge service pack (by then your computer is usually torn to pieces by the virus lol)

I would reccomend anti-virus regardless tbh. One of the biggest failures in the security of something usually ends up being over confidence in the security. Too many people are confident that mac's cant get viruses when in reality they can. As a result if something goes wrong itll hit them harder then if they covered their backs.

I wouldn't bother with an anti-virus personally, that's just my opinion having been around the Mac community for a while. The one thing I do run is a Little Snitch (http://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/index.html) firewall, so I can keep an eye on all incoming/outgoing data connections over and above the default OS firewall.

Regardless of whether you choose to install anti-virus software or not, one thing I wouldn't do is put anything Norton on any of my comps, Mac or PC :P

Lol, Steiny.
When I first bought my Mac someone suggested putting an anti-virus software on it. I did, and used it a few times, after that, I didn't bother, to be honest. I haven't run one in.. err... 4 years now, lol. I definitely wouldn't be saying that if I was a PC user :P