I heard a bit about this story last night but have just seen this article (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Disabled-CBeebies-TV-Presenter-Cerrie-Burnell-Accused-Of-Scaring-Children-After-Complaints/Article/200902415227818?lpos=) about the Cbeebies presenter with one arm. Complaints have been made because she is apparently 'scaring' kids aged 2-5.

We all know how looks can be deceiving and even as adults we make bad judgements about people but what about our children and the children of the future? Should they be ignorant of people born differently until an older age where they can understand it more, or should they be taught that people come in different shapes and sizes from a very early age?

One of my friends explined to her young daughter that Cerrie was born without a hand. My friend then went on to explain how people are sometimes born differently so they look very different. Also how people get injured later on in life and this also makes them look a bit different to let's say, "normal people", or rather those with physical disabilities.

Cbeebies also have a show called "Something Special" aimed at children with hearing disabilities. It teaches them sign language of simple and everyday words at a very young age. So, if Cbeebies cater for children with disabilities, why do the public have a problem with a presenter having disabilities? Another example is Penny (??) from Balamory, she's the one in the wheelchair.

I personally think if kids saw these people from a younger age on tv then it would open their minds a bit more and they would be understanding. It gives a child the option to ask their mum and dad why this person looks the way they do. In addition to this, it reduces the level of ignorance in today's society and hopefully when children go out and see a person with a missing limb they won't stare in a rude/inquisitive manner, rather they will automatically know and understand that some people are born differently. This in turn makes a person with similar disabilites not feel uncomfortable - nobody likes to be stared at, even if it is unintentional.

Cerrie also has a four month old daughter. Other children out there with parents with disabilites might find comfort in knowing that there are others like them (or indeed themselves) out there full of success.

I know quite a few of you are parents to young children; how would you feel if this is what was shown on your child's favourite channel every day for a few minutes? And what are your thoughts about some of the ways people are responding to Cerrie in a negative way?

Honestly, I'd like the actual facts and figures of people who have complained about this.

I can't really believe that anyone would want to 'protect' their child against facts of life such as disability. I can't think of one person who I know personally who wouldn't love to be able to sit down with their kid and explain to them about disability issues.

Maybe I'm just lucky with the people I know. It makes me cross knowing that there are those who consider themselves so 'special' that disability would never be able to touch them and that they would rather bury it than come to terms with it in others.

Another link with more of a positive feel:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7906507.stm

Jeez, talk about some parents making a big deal out of nothing. Kids tend to accept kids with disabilities more readily than their parents anyway. I think parents become too obsessed with 'protecting' their kids from seeing the world as it really is sometimes.

I don't see why a simple reply stating 'they were born without an arm' is so hard to come up with.. My son hasn't asked about her arm, maybe because he doesn't feel it is worth mentioning, but most likely because he hasn't even noticed. If he were to ask though, I would be honest with him and simply tell him that people are sometimes born differently, like without an arm or a leg.

Disabilities are a part of life, and kids should be taught to accept that. Makes me wonder how these complaining parents would react if they gave birth in the future to another child who had a disability.

I think the parents who are writing in saying that their two year old was having nightmares, or thought that the lady hurt herself, ought to take the time to sit their child down and explain the concept of disability to them, instead of sitting at their computer ranting about it.

Eep, I don't think that I have much to say which hasn't been said already. My thought straight away was how is it that if a child genuinely does have a problem with the sight of a disabled person, then the parent's reaction shouldn't be to complain, effectively blaming the disabled person, but should be to talk to the child and explain. I know that this has been said but I thought that it couldn't hurt to reiterate. :P

I feel the same as everyone else. There have been times when I have taken the time to tell my children about disabilities and they have absolutely no problem with it. That doesn't mean they wont look though. That's one thing that I love about children is they aren't afraid to express what they see because they see no harm in it. I honestly do not get offended in the least when little children (2 yr old or so) children call me fat because they are just stating a fact! I mean they are not trying to be mean they are just saying what they see....just like they do when they say "That bug is green!". And they will do the same with people with disabilities. I can totally hear my 2 yr old saying loudly "That lady has no arms." even saying it right in front of them....and they aren't being mean...just saying what they see. And I think it's great that children do this because it gives us as parents the opportunity to explain to them why that person has no arm etc.

I agree with you AJ that it will allow them to be more understand and less "rude" later on in life. I think it is silly that some parents are getting upset over it and it leads me to believe that maybe THEY themselves were not taught properly concerning people with disabilities etc.

I find it interesting that after reading the article, all this is brought on by nine complaints. NINE! There are millions of viewers, but nine can stir the pot. The media has jumped on this and is clapping with glee at the additional advertisement and possible viewers. The positive aspect of this is that with the right information disseminated, this public awareness outcry could be a wonderful learning event. Here is an opportunity to teach the viewers (parents and children) a few virtues to make the world a better place.

Children should not be shielded from people who are different than them. They should be taught compassion, tolerance, and acceptance. It is the parents’ responsibility to teach these values to their children with the help of the said program, and programs like it. It is also important to note, that not only should the parents be teaching compassion, tolerance and acceptance, they should also be teaching their children the art of giving, charity, and selflessness.

It is important for children to be exposed to people that are different than they are. I feel the earlier the better. Children are not afraid of people (unless they have been taught to be afraid) who are different (for the most part), they are naturally curious. Here is an opportunity for the parents to talk about people who: look different, act different, talk different, have no limbs, have prostheses, are in a wheelchair etc., and explain that although these people are different they are the same, as they have hopes, dreams, and feelings just like we do. The child should not be reprimanded for asking questions but encouraged to do so.

I have been blessed to raise my child in a community where there are physically and mentally challenged people. In the military community, disabled children are encouraged to play and go to school with the “normal” children. There are many quality programs available and participation is encouraged. We live in a neighborhood where wounded / recovering soldiers live. When we go to the commissary or clinic we see them. They are walking down the hall beside us, chatting, trying to make their life as normal as possible. My son had many questions at first, but now he just sees the people, and not their disabilities.

I have taught him compassion, tolerance, and acceptance. He is aware that all people, regardless of how they look, have feelings, hopes, and dreams. I have taught him to offer help when he sees someone struggling with a door or to offer his seat to someone who needs to sit but won’t ask. Because of his exposure to those “different” than himself, he has learned that it is not how you look that makes you who you are, but how you act. He works as a Water Safety Instructor at a pool where disabled veterans come to swim as part of their physical therapy. He shares stories of their challenges and determination. He sees them as heroes, not from their occupation, for their attitude and how hard they are working to recover from their injuries.

In the case at hand, the complaining parents are the ones who need to be taught compassion, tolerance and acceptance. If they had learned these virtues as a child, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Makes me wonder how these complaining parents would react if they gave birth in the future to another child who had a disability.
Excellent point. Surely anyone, disabled or not would want to feel welcome in a world like this. Why hide the truth and what people are really like?
My cousin who works in a local primary school said there are more disabled children now than there ever has been before. Surely every parent regardless of their kids' abilities would be more willing to educate their kids about disabilities.

I think it is silly that some parents are getting upset over it and it leads me to believe that maybe THEY themselves were not taught properly concerning people with disabilities etc.
Exactly. I was wondering if these people who complained were the sort who'd smirk at people with disabilities. I don't know the figures and this is just an educated guess but I'd say that those people who did complain are more than likely to be the sort who'd see a legless person down the street and then look in disgust. I'm really struggling to see how anyone who was caring towards disabled people would want to hide things like this from their kids.

I find it interesting that after reading the article, all this is brought on by nine complaints. NINE! There are millions of viewers, but nine can stir the pot.
Sounds a bit like that Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross stuff. I think two people complained originally and by the end of the week there were 250,00 complaints? It's all drama over nothing. Although, that said, the Brand/Ross thing was stupid 'cause they were both adults setting a bad example on air.

On a personal level it really saddens me because having worked in a disabled school I can see how much the kids look up to the presenters on Cbeebies and various kids' programmes. I think for parents to complain about someone's physical disabilities takes the biscuit. Those channels cater for all kids with their programmes and special times for signers to sign along with shows not suitable for deaf children.

To me, saying so-and-so shouldn't be on tv is like saying "ugh, that over weight lass on Eastenders gives me nightmares" Or Jo Brand or whoever. Why don't the public complain about the fat people on tv? Or even better, why don't they complain about how disgustingly thin an anorexic girl looks on tv? Now that really does give me nightmares!

Cerrie's probably had to face so much discrimination throughout her life and it's horrible to see adults now trying to treat her differently. I wish these people who made those complaints would grow up.

Kudos to the BBC for hiring someone like Cerrie, there ought to be more like her!

Fantastic discussion going on here. I enjoyed reading it :)

I have just a few things to add:

... it leads me to believe that maybe THEY themselves were not taught properly concerning people with disabilities etc. ...

... In the case at hand, the complaining parents are the ones who need to be taught compassion, tolerance and acceptance. If they had learned these virtues as a child, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

I agree with this. My initial reaction when I first read the post was to wonder whether the people who complained were the ones who were actually 'scared' or felt uneasy with watching 'unusual' people. I think it can be quite disconcerting to be put outside your comfort zone no matter what the situation is, and some people handle it better than others. Watching people with visible disabilities can be outside some people's comfort zone and be challenging for the mind to handle, as after all, it is not the 'norm'. So I understand where the parents are coming from, but (obviously) I do not condone it.

I'm not sure that children just automatically have 'nightmares' about people with disabilities. After all, unless they were taught indirectly or directly that having a disability is a negative thing, they're not going to think that it's 'bad' or 'scary'. So I think that those who use children as an excuse to call people with disabilities 'scary' are indirectly projecting their own feelings about disabled people.

... That's one thing that I love about children is they aren't afraid to express what they see because they see no harm in it. [...] I mean they are not trying to be mean they are just saying what they see....just like they do when they say "That bug is green!". And they will do the same with people with disabilities. I can totally hear my 2 yr old saying loudly "That lady has no arms." even saying it right in front of them....and they aren't being mean...just saying what they see. ...

And I miss this about being young. As one grows older and older, it becomes harder and harder to talk about certain things, I find. There are so many things I'm curious about but that I don't ask about or talk about because I'm afraid I might offend someone.

I would be interested in knowing how a disabled person copes with day to day living activities, like cooking, for example, but I can't ask them face to face, because I think they might think (or other people might think) that I'm being incredibly forward. So yes, I am curious about disabled people (and I'm not ashamed to 'admit'/say it), but social etiquette suggests that I have to be below 10 yrs to ask about/say some things.

A sort of related aside is the series Britain's Missing Top Model (fashion model hunt but all the contestants are disabled). I loved watching the first season, because it was so interesting to watch how they cope with their differences, and also to see how some of them are just so incredibly positive and inspiring. Kelly Knox (winner of BMTM) was on Ready Steady Cook the other day and I thought it made that episode much more interesting because I saw how she handled day to day things with just one arm. She's just amazingly positive as well, which is so uplifting, and it was interesting to hear (albeit briefly) her story of life with one arm (which is not that different to ours!). =)

I'm not sure that children just automatically have 'nightmares' about people with disabilities.
I thought this nightmares thing sounded a bit fishy. Cbeebies is aimed at babies, toddlers and kids in reception so to about age 6 tops. I know a lot of kids and those who are aged 2-3, rarely 4, can't speak properly and clearly. Sometimes even the 'smarter' kids.

I find it really difficult for a parent to almost assume that because their child woke up crying after watching Cerrie it meant they had a nightmare about her or other limbless people. Children at a very young age can dream about monsters or people chasing them or even falling but to say they dreamt about Cerrie or a man with no hands... I dunno, it just doesn't feel very convincing. If kids were really scared they'd say so at the time. And in my experience, most, if not all children are into the sounds and colours so they barely pay attention to presenters.

And I miss this about being young. As one grows older and older, it becomes harder and harder to talk about certain things, I find. There are so many things I'm curious about but that I don't ask about or talk about because I'm afraid I might offend someone.

I would be interested in knowing how a disabled person copes with day to day living activities, like cooking, for example, but I can't ask them face to face, because I think they might think (or other people might think) that I'm being incredibly forward. So yes, I am curious about disabled people (and I'm not ashamed to 'admit'/say it), but social etiquette suggests that I have to be below 10 yrs to ask about/say some things.
Funny you should mention that. I recently got to know a blind person who stays at home to look after their kids. One kid crawls and is trying to walk (I think) and the other is potty training. So after speaking to this person (online btw) they ask about an emote I used so they could 'label' it. Sounded strange to me but then they told me they were blind so I guess it made sense seeing as a chat client they used read everything out for them.

Although this person is very open about being blind and open to questions I still can't find myself to ask questions. For example, "How do you change your baby's nappy?", How do they know after the baby's done a poo that they've wiped it all away and none has gone on their clothes? How do you feed your children? How you know when your baby's thrown up on you or thrown out some milk whilst burping? The questions I could ask go on and on but regardless of them willing to answer, I still can't bring myself to do it. Maybe it's because we've not been speaking long so I might feel awkward. Usually I wouldn't be worried so I dunno what's up.

I can tell you how blind people make a cut of tea though. They have this little bleeping device on the edge of their mugs that lets them know when the water reaches a certain point.

A blind person's has a specific colour on it. For example, red means they're deaf and blind.

I know a lot of kids and those who are aged 2-3, rarely 4, can't speak properly and clearly. Sometimes even the 'smarter' kids.

I find it really difficult for a parent to almost assume that because their child woke up crying after watching Cerrie it meant they had a nightmare about her or other limbless people. Children at a very young age can dream about monsters or people chasing them or even falling but to say they dreamt about Cerrie or a man with no hands... I dunno, it just doesn't feel very convincing. If kids were really scared they'd say so at the time. And in my experience, most, if not all children are into the sounds and colours so they barely pay attention to presenters.

I agree to an extent. My 2 yr old can talk circles around the other 2 yr olds in my moms DayCare and has been able to since he was about 15 months old. He speaks in very complete sentences and speaks almost just as good as his older brother who is 4, and as I said has been able to since he was very young. (Of course he also was walking at 8 months old and potty trained himself at 18 months old! :eek: yes i'm shamelessly bragging lol) ANYWAY....my point is that it is completely unthinkable that their 2 year old did wake up with a nightmare about it and came and told them. But if my child woke up and told me they had a nightmare about her I would try to understand firstly what the nightmare was really about...was this 1 armed person trying to "get them" or what? And then I would explain to them that nothing like that would happen and that just because someone has 1 arm doesn't mean they are scary, they are just different...just like some people have brown hair and some people have yellow hair, people are born different. And that is how I personally would handle it if my 2 yr old woke up complaining about a nightmare about this woman. Maybe it wasn't even that the woman was scary though...maybe it's just that the woman was IN the nightmare and that was all the little girl could convey to her parents! Because as you said...many 2 yr olds cannot speak very well!

I dunno...all I know is that it sounds to me that the parents are the ones with the problem!!!

Sorry to cut in...

*AJ* - if you're interested in the day-to-day life of a blind person, I'd recommend the autobiography 'Emma and I' by Sheila Hocken. It was my favourite book growing up - my copy is held together by sticky tape now.

Oh, and what Shiny_Penny said about the positive aspect (raised awareness) coming out of this horrible story? Penny - you're my kinda gal! That's a great way of looking at it. Just wanted to explain my thanks.

Interesting discussion AJ.

I can't really say anything else except what has already been mentioned. As some of you guys have already said, disability is a part of everyday life. We shouldn't treat them any differently to us in any way, they are human beings and have values and rights, just like people without disabilities.

For children who have maybe never seen a person with a disability, I think this is an ideal time to talk about it to them, but children may already ask as they do have inquisitive minds.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo177/db1986/Treasure%20Hunt/EasterEgg5.jpg

Nyna: I like your approach to how you'd handle the situation if it was your child who woke up with nightmares. I like the questions you'd ask and the order n which you asked them. Also, a very important point which you mentioned was if the person was just IN the nightmare but causing the child no harm. I think some parents tend to not think about this or even ask unless a child mentions it themselves.

Vik: Ordered the book just now. Must be great if your copy started falling apart, thanks! :)

In case anyone's interested; Cerrie was on yesterdays episode (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00j8g98/The_One_Show_18_03_2009/) of The One Show talking about this fiasco and attitudes to disabilities in general.

Ah, thanks for the linkio NH! That was a really good section and I love the way it was all filmed. Cerrie's response to this entire situation is a good one and I think that guy hit the nail on the head when he said it was all about the parents who were prejudiced. He's absolutely right; kids are curious and the only way they'd think negatively about a disabilty is if they had a direct bad experience of some sort.

The thing about the model with a disability was good too. Didn't know that's what the show was about, I assumed it was like any other model hunt show. My bad :/

Does anyone watch ANTM? (America's Next Top Model)? I was going to start a thread about it but I don't know how many people here watch it.

(Please let's *not* start a discussion about how beauty is commercialised, it's temporary, it should be down to personal choice, etc. I just love the acting! ;))

I watch it storm!

Yay Nyna! We can gossip about it then! XD

Totally! I haven't watched this weeks yet so don't say anything about it! lol

Kids 2 - 5 are the most fearless entities in the known world. And they haven't got old enough to learn ridiculous prejudices - they come with age and growing up around stupid people.

Next, Mickey Mouse, the Simpsons and almost every other cartoon character in the known universe will need to come off of TV because they are missing a finger, and therefore scary.

Absolute absurdity.

I forgot to add earlier.. in that link Hinty posted they showed clips of which shows Cerrie worked on. They showed the birthday card bit where little viewers have cards made by their family members showing theire favourite shows/cartoons and with their favourite characters.

Now, I'm a pretty observant person and I notice the tiniest amounts of detail all the time.
However, I saw that birthday cards clip about a week or so before starting this thread. (I was watching it with my niece and nephew, not on my own!! :p) I didn't notice Cerrie's arm/hand at all and it only occured to me after watching The One Show that she presented that small section.

Seriously, if I failed to notice it, I'm amazed smaller kids did. My niece and nephew didn't even notice it otherwise they'd have commented.. Well, my niece would have, my nephew would have been like "hmhmhmmnmmaaa... hand!" lol XD