There's been a bit of hoohah about language use lately, especially that on TV. It's claimed it's getting worse by the Mary Whitehouse brigade. Most complaints about swearing in the UK however, only amount to 200 or under complaints. Is this because we don't mind swearing on TV, or is it because we think TV will put out this programming anyway?

Is swearing in public more offensive than that on television? I hear younger people f'ing and c'ing and it upsets me not because they're swearing so much as because I wonder where that part of your life when you didn't dare swear in front of an adult went.

I'm not offended by swearing either on TV or in public (unless it's directed at someone in a malicious manner) and I think it can be a brilliant facilitator in comedy. When I've sworn before, usually with good reason, you get that, 'Swearing shows lack of vocabulary', only one person said this to me and she couldn't pronounce the word vocabulary correctly. A bit ironic, but my response was, 'Yes, I cannot lie, my preference for unpleasant language is a façade for my inability to use the myriad of nouns available to me'. She just blinked.

Anyway, joking aside... do you think swearing is offensive?

Some situations, yes, some situations, no

I think there's a time and a place for it. I don't find swearing offensive unless it's really extreme, or in a place where there are kids. On TV later in the evening, it's fine by me.

Swearing performs an important function in language - it provides taboo and an outlet to vent in an extreme way and it allows a certain degree of linguistic rebellion for young adults. If it becomes too commonplace, such as in the example you gave that every kid on every street corner starts effing and blinding just because it's become part of their vocabulary, then it loses that function. Then more words have to be 'invented' or given a new subtext to replace the softened words. It's linguistic evolution at it's peak, because of course swear words have the double implication of being 'cool' and 'taboo' and those kinds of words evolve the fastest in society.

For example, my mum was clipped around the ear for saying 'blimey' when she was a kid. In my parent's house, 'bloody hell' is seen as a step too far, whereas 'blimey' is seen as being fine. Another generation or two, and the f word may be commonplace, whereas for me as a kid, it was shocking.

If certain swearwords become commonplace in the media, this speeds up an already fast process of change. The words become more and more shocking because to an extent it's the shock factor that makes swear words worth using. The lifespan of these words decrease, meaning that for the aging segment of the population, teens and young adults always seem to be more and more foul-mouthed. This has always been a major sticking point between older and younger people.

For me, the problems creep in when it's not only young adults who use taboo words, but when young kids use them as par for the course. Kids have always sworn, and always will - but usually with a sense of 'this is naughty and grown-up and therefore it's fun', not because they find it normal. But then again, I'm sure certain members of the older generation found it shocking when I said 'blimey' as a kid! Maybe the words that young kids use these days are already becoming as tame as a minor blaspheme. I'm interested to know what new words will come along to replace the Big Taboos of today.

I think that due to the fluid nature of swear words, to worry about them too much is probably a sign that one is getting old and out of the loop. That's life!

/me finds her carpet slippers and makes herself a cup of cocoa.

Heh. Nice thread, Buffed One.
I swore a lot when I was younger, almost casually, I would say.
Now that I am *cough*a little*cough* older, with kids, I see it differently. I hear young children swear (young as in 3 and 4), and I cringe at their casual use of the F and C words (in my defence, I never used the C word in casual conversation)

Just last week, I picked up Mr Saff from a party with his mates, and one of his friends came out to say hello, and his T-Shirt said "F*** YOU, YOU F***ING F***" and all my kids were giggling behind their hands cos they thought it was funny but they knew Mum woudn't approve.

I dunno. Sometimes I feel that swearing is just an indication of incredibly short tempers that people seem to have nowadays - just going on iSketch experiences - as soon as someone says something slightly against another person, or warns etc - the swearing and abusiveness comes out - suddenly a person who is unknown becomes a F***ing Gay W***er because they either warned someone for using letters, or didn't draw their word the way that some other player understood it.

Overall though, I have tried to bring up my children to know that swear words are something that people say, and that they will hear all the time. I've told them they should not use a word unless they can explain what it means, and that it really doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Having said that, I still think the F word is the most incredibly flexible word in the English language. I mean......you walk past a man looking angrily into the bonnet of his car and ask what's wrong.....a response of "the f***ing f***er's f***ed" just describes it best.

I mean......you walk past a man looking angrily into the bonnet of his car and ask what's wrong.....a response of "the f***ing f***er's f***ed" just describes it best.

LOL! You know that his car is broken and he's not happy about it!

I recently started using it's fubar, because I now know what it means after asking a work colleague a couple of weeks ago.. at the age of 34 :embarrassed: lol

I disapprove of swearing most of the time. It seems that people especially young people generally use swear words in everyday language. In this case I think it is unnecessary. If a child was to overhear them, then they would pick it up so easily.

Where I work, I see it all too often. Parents shouting and swearing at their children for doing something wrong. Again, unnecessary.

However if someone says it by pure accident or only on very few occasions I would let it slide.

Also, I don't agree with swearing on TV before 9pm, and I have seen and heard it.

It's so weird that you said that, Buffers! The other day my husband was cleaning the cat litter tray (normally my job) and not liking it, so he said it's fubar. I said, well technically it's pubar as in poo'ed up beyond all recognition (I know - the wit that goes on in our household). He didn't have the faintest idea what I was talking about as he thought fubar was a word in it's own right, so I explained it to him.

Maybe fubar will become the trendy swearword for the over 30s?!

I don't reallyy swear at all just because I never have and I guess I don't really feel the need to!
It doesn't offend me though, I think people can be over sensitive about it. They are just words at the end of the day.Also just because someone hears these words doesn't mean they have to start using them, why don't they think about what they are saying? However it can go too far and if I see someone being really horrible and swearing at someone it does upset me.

Something that is quite funny is the words that people use when they start to swear and then remember that they shouldn't.

If there are any linguists here looking for a PhD topic, how about 'Substitute swear words and the impact they have had on Present-Day English' ? That would be really interesting! My dad would be a case study on his own. My personal favourite of his is 'Ohhh Shhhh..ugar Plum Faries!!!'

What words do you use instead of swearing? I've been teased in the past for overuse of 'flip'.

F*c----ryin out loud

I agree that people should use substitute words instead of swearing, but some things wouldn't be the same. Stand-up comedy is not the same without the occasional swear word thrown in. Again it should be limited to after 9pm if being aired on TV.

Having said that, why do TV bosses allow swearing before the 9pm watershed? I've heard swearing on a number of occasions on an 8pm show. OK, in my opinion they weren't strong swear words (is there a scale of swear word strength?) but still, they shouldn't have been said.

I very rarely use swear words. The only time I would use them is either talking to myself* to let out frustration or when a swear word accidently slips out. I would never use them in front of minors, and I think that it's disgusting that some people do.

(*For the record, this doesn't happen very often) :razz:

Can anyone explain why a "swear" word can be considered more offensive than a non-swear word with the same definition?

Personally, I think people only find swearing offensive because they are brought up not to use certain words.

e.g. Vik didn't feel the need to censor the word "poo", and yet if a child were to ask what "s**t" means it would cause far more fluster than "poo" despite having essentially the same answer.

Anyway, if swearing wasn't seen as something you're not meant to do, it wouldn't have the same effect - either in comedy or in stress-relieving expletives...

Personally, I think people only find swearing offensive because they are brought up not to use certain words.
...
Anyway, if swearing wasn't seen as something you're not meant to do, it wouldn't have the same effect - either in comedy or in stress-relieving expletives...
I agree with both those points. I think the manner in which the word is used, such as being malicious towards someone, is far more important than the word which is used to do it. Having said that, hearing kids using so-called swear words as the norm is kinda annoying and they become overused (such as people using "like" before every phrase :p) and a lot of these kids aren't really able to say much else. I don't really swear very much, out of habit or probably because my parents didn't swear either, except sometimes at myself (usually when playing some sport and misplacing a pass or missing a goal :cry:).

Can anyone explain why a "swear" word can be considered more offensive than a non-swear word with the same definition?

Hints - it's all about the intent.

ALL words are merely a collection of sounds arranged in a certain order which then have a semantic value. However, many words contain differences of register.

For example - you, along with everyone else in the world, speak differently to different people. You speak to your friends in a different way to that in which you would speak to a doctor, say. You speak to someone you know in a different way to that in which you speak to a total stranger. That's different types of register, and the vast majority of people have different levels of it. That then implies that different types of words have different values. There are many near-synonyms in English - like your example of poo and ♥♥♥♥. One of the classic examples of synonyms with different 'register values' is that of start, begin and commence. These words all mean the same thing in certain contexts, but your choice of them varies according to the situation. Commence has a much higher register than start and would be used only in certain situations, despite meaning the same thing as it's lower register cousin.

So, with that in mind, you can also see how swear words are actually NOT simply the same as the words with which they share a definition. The register and tone are quite different and therefore the intent behind those kinds of words is completely different. They are considered impolite (for a lot of historical-linguistic reasons that I wont bore you with) or shocking in the same way that euphemisms are considered to be nice, if somewhat twee. There is actually no such thing as a perfect synonym. They are just not needed in the language and are thrown out if they occur.

You are right, it is all to do with up-bringing and social standards - and what's wrong with that? If s**t was the polite form then perhaps poo would be considered totally unacceptable. The important thing to remember is that the impolite words are as much a part of society as the polite ones. They have a function to perform which I touched upon in my first post, and (much like Gods) if they did not exist, people would invent them.

Some people use them with glee, some use them now and then, some hate them - it doesn't really matter which side you're on, because those groups of people balance each other out.

I admit when i'm on my own......i swear a lot. Or if i'm annoyed or angry, i swear to myself - but never out loud.
I actually hate it when people swear in front of you, i find it quite rude and some words are disgusting (in whatever context it's used!)

I just think we should use our language properly and not have to use swear words in it all the time. But unfortunately i think it's slowly becoming then norm where people will openly swear in everyday life.

Durrum... well offense is in the... ears... of the beholder. I personally am not offended by it, and to hear other people swear doesn't offend me as long as it isn't directed with any contempt. BUT I know that there are those who are offended by it, and I wouldn't swear in front of them. In fact, I think that I only ever swear in the company of people who I know aren't offended by it. So yes, I think that it's just a case of different people having different tastes; what offends some doesn't offend others. I, for example, feel that it is offensive when bairns wear a waistcoat and a pair of trainers in the same outfit, but other people wouldn't be offended by this at all.

Oh, and swearing doesn't necessarily have to show a lack of vocabulary, either. I don't see why a lot of people believe that swear words and wordy words have to exist in some dichotomy... pairing them together nicely can make some good expressions, I'm sure of it.

Ah, on the television aspect I feel that swearing is by no means vital but it can help to convey the personality of characters in some programmes, as well as giving a sense of realism. Sometimes there are poorly written programmes with scripts full of swearing which adds nothing to the programme, too though.

(I sometimes like to go all out and do some melodramatic, Brian Blessed-esque cursing. "CALAMITY CALAMITY!" and the like.)

I do not swear. I have said very few cuss words in my life in fact. And when I have used a cuss word the people around me were shocked and stunned and told me it just didn't sound right coming out of my mouth. I just do not see the need for cussing. There are far better words to say for situations in my opinion. Actually even if there isn't a word I make up words. Lol Like when I was in labor everyone finds it hilarious that I decided to say "Oh sshhhhhhalalalala" instead of what I could have said.

I voted for yes it is offensive because I think there is no need for it and you never know who WILL be offended by it. I myself am not really "offended" by it when people use it but it does sort of make me respect them less?...I dunno if that's what i'm trying to say or not but it makes me look at them in a different light. What other people want to do with their lives is their choice. I choose not to cuss and I would hope other people respected me for my decision and would try not to cuss around me. However if they do cuss around me i'm not one thats going to say "Please don't say that." Because honestly it doesn't "offend" me per se, but it does sort of annoy me.

Now if someone cusses in front of my kids though I do take offense. I do not want my kids learning that language. I'm pretty sure my 4 yr old has never heard a cuss word in his life and I would like to keep it that way for as long as possible. I would like to keep them innocent for as long as I can! My 7 yr old i'm sure has heard cuss words but as far as I have heard he does not say them because he knows that we do not approve of them and he knows that there are different things he can say. I don't doubt some day he will use cuss words but he will always know from me that I do not approve.

For all those wondering who on earth clicked the top option on the poll - it was me!!! I did it by accident as I was at work and was rushing :rolleyes: I actually wanted to click on "sometimes". Gah! Me sends ♥♥♥♥♥ your way :razz:


Anyway, joking aside... do you think swearing is offensive?

It depends on the situation for me. I am used to being sworn at and on average, learn a new expletive or expression at least once a week (I work in a Special Needs School for young people who have extreme behavioural problems). I suppose I have become a little immune to abuse being directed at me when I am at work (but for some reason, the kids always apologise to me - lol go figure). The only word that causes me to mentally take a sharp intake of breath is the one that probably all females wince at.

I don't like children swearing and truly believe that children live what they learn - either through parenting or peers. My children are not angels... but they know my boundaries. My eldest may swear with her friends (out of sight, out of mind and all that) but she respects me enough not to swear in front of me (and on the rare occasions she has done, she accepts that every bad behaviour will have a consequence). It's consistency - I don't swear around them... they dont swear around me.



Swearing performs an important function in language - it provides taboo and an outlet to vent in an extreme way and it allows a certain degree of linguistic rebellion for young adults. If it becomes too commonplace, such as in the example you gave that every kid on every street corner starts effing and blinding just because it's become part of their vocabulary, then it loses that function. Then more words have to be 'invented' or given a new subtext to replace the softened words. It's linguistic evolution at it's peak, because of course swear words have the double implication of being 'cool' and 'taboo' and those kinds of words evolve the fastest in society.



Kudos for that statement Vik... and I agree 100%. I won't tell you what the word of the week is at our school... but when the shock factor is there - ALL the kids use it for a day or so until it loses its shine. Other kids may react at the time - but our staff are consistent (the majority of the time - they are only human after all) and ignoring it usually works.



I think that due to the fluid nature of swear words, to worry about them too much is probably a sign that one is getting old and out of the loop. That's life!

* Vik;162063 finds her carpet slippers and makes herself a cup of cocoa.

lmao... here here!!! You are on top form today old girl :razz:




Also, I don't agree with swearing on TV before 9pm, and I have seen and heard it.

Yes... I still think the watershed is a good idea. However, you could argue that swearing is perhaps mild compared to some of the violence that has been shown (such as in the soaps) and before the watershed. But that is another debate.



What words do you use instead of swearing? I've been teased in the past for overuse of 'flip'.

lol.. reminds me when my daughter was much younger (about 5) and instead of using the F word I went through a stage of using animal names. I did get some odd looks :razz:



Oh, and swearing doesn't necessarily have to show a lack of vocabulary, either. I don't see why a lot of people believe that swear words and wordy words have to exist in some dichotomy... pairing them together nicely can make some good expressions, I'm sure of it.



Have to agree with you here Fox - providing that it is in good taste :razz: Steven Fry is perhaps a very good example (got to love QI :razz:) and James May (Top Gear) never fails to raise a smile.



(I sometimes like to go all out and do some melodramatic, Brian Blessed-esque cursing. "CALAMITY CALAMITY!" and the like.)

lmao.... SugarPumpkin.... you just crack me up :razz:

Steven Fry was exactly who I was thinking of too, Tempus. :) And I didn't think of James May, but the way that he speaks and swears makes me laugh actually... his swearing is just sort of blunt and short, but never offensive. "Oh, cock."

LOL... The expression that you have used by James May is the exact one I was thinking of too. Kindly get out of my head... it really isn't safe for you to be residing in there Sugar xx

Hmm.. I dislike swearing.. because it's unnecessary, but I swear a lot... and it's a bad habit which I've picked up from my uh.. more chavvier days I suppose.. :O lololol. But yeah.. I dunno there are some swear words that I would be disgusted to hear.. because they are just crude and distasteful... :s -cringes- -cringes at using the word cringe- But yeah.. there are some swearwords that have just picked up an everyday kind of useage... like the s one the c one and the f one I think... hmm... i just dislike it when people swear in front of children/kids. Actually I am disgusted with some of the stuff children learn/pick up.. O_O lol, but that's another bundle of sticks... :P But I try very hard not to swear infront of children.. I have used many replacements.. :P fluff is a good one.. or.. shugar, shoot, creep, sheep, ship, shizzle, fuggin, fudge, flipping, flicking.. ehhh :D lolol

So yeah... hmm back on topic... I think it can be offensive, but I think in some situations it's fine.. I think if someone doesn't use swearwords then swears it's a lot more shocking and more likely to be taken seriously than if someone who says them all the time say it... if that makes sense. xD And yeah, I don't like it when people swear at other people although I do this too (but usually only when someone has really pee'd me off.. e.g. being cut up by a car and so causing me to nearly fall over.. >.>).. hmm.. I need to clean up my vocabulary :P lolol. (hypocrite much?) Hmm... I dunno. I think swearwords are used far too often in this day and age...

meh, i have no idea tbh.... i guess im an indecisive person....

my parents' english is way worse than mine, so obv they dont know the swears and therefore..they never really taught me to be aware of them. but i've always disliked swearing and hearing them... first time i ever learned one? was basically when i was about 6 or 7...someone had written the word on the bathroom stall in school XD was a huge issue i guess, no one was quite pleased with it either

i choose not to say the words simply because it offends some people....and some people just consider them...well...not exactly the best words in the world XD as for the words also meaning common things...like poo XD or whatevs :) then i wonder why we dont just use those words... as they are considered insulting to some...

but as for the words being offensive? i do believe it depends on the context... if someone is gonna call another a f***er....well...no duh thats sorta offensive -_- but i dont tend to tell people not to say those words unless its used to insult another person, thats their choice....

as for little kids learning the words? it seems that yah. the words do tend to get more common as time goes on....and a lot of kids i know at church have said those words :( .... but I'd rather they didnt know. its just the fact that people call these words swearing that makes them, to me, not exactly the best choice of words... little kids dont need to use these words...there are substitutes... but i do get how some people find it fine to use the words because their meanings are not that bad...

to me its more a matter of the common viewpoint of these words, many times its just not proper to use them, and I'd rather use other words...reasons why people hear me say drat a lot XD i've been taught that its not good to say the words..therefore i'd rather not say them...or hear them. but im not bout to force someone to say other words..its their choice if they choose....

/me twirls around

I'm not fond of swearing.. but I guess it also depends on what you consider as swearing. I've used stuff like "bloody hell!", "or what a bloody idiot" and "oh ♥♥♥♥!" (which I seem to pronounce as "oh ♥♥♥♥e".. lol. Not sure why. Just sounds less serious?)

My parents aren't ones to swear.. and my husbands parents don't swear either. I tend to like the calmer environments. I know we all get angry and words come out. My own sisters do it sometimes, and I do feel uncomfortable with it, 'cause it doesn't sound right coming out of their mouths, lol. Sometimes I'll just say "dude, don't swear. No need for it. Calm down".

I do lose respect for people who swear a lot. Sorry, I just do. Not completely.. I just see them as being less of a role model.. like.. for example, I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who swore none stop in my presence, and in the presence of children, etc. Not only that, but I personally find that the people who swear all the time kinda make themselves look.. less intellectual? :S

People are allowed to do what they want to do though. Just saying that I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who swore a lot. So then I don't need to be affected by such language.

Edit: Ohhh.. hearts have come up! Btw.. 'cause it's 4 letters, I hope you don't mean I"m talking about the F word, 'cause I'd NEVER use that! :| It was actually the SH... word.. ending in IT.. :P lol. Now add an E to make it sound less serious. lol XD

Durrum... well offense is in the... ears... of the beholder. I personally am not offended by it, and to hear other people swear doesn't offend me as long as it isn't directed with any contempt. BUT I know that there are those who are offended by it, and I wouldn't swear in front of them. In fact, I think that I only ever swear in the company of people who I know aren't offended by it. So yes, I think that it's just a case of different people having different tastes; what offends some doesn't offend others. I, for example, feel that it is offensive when bairns wear a waistcoat and a pair of trainers in the same outfit, but other people wouldn't be offended by this at all.

Oh, and swearing doesn't necessarily have to show a lack of vocabulary, either. I don't see why a lot of people believe that swear words and wordy words have to exist in some dichotomy... pairing them together nicely can make some good expressions, I'm sure of it.

Ah, on the television aspect I feel that swearing is by no means vital but it can help to convey the personality of characters in some programmes, as well as giving a sense of realism. Sometimes there are poorly written programmes with scripts full of swearing which adds nothing to the programme, too though.


This.

I try not to swear in front of people that I think will get offended even though I don't think anyone should be offended with a word unless it's used with malice against them.

Swear words are also great for adding emphasis and some are very versatile for instance the word f♥♥k...

(warning: vid contains swearing and weird cartoon sex scenes)
oeJEPSYB7pQ

lol at that video and Vik, I really liked your linguistic explanations.

To me swear words are only offensive if they're directed at someone; they've over-used without any good reason (e.g. I need a glass of f***ing water), or they're graphic (I can't help visualising an image if it's a graphic word and that makes me uncomfortable). Otherwise, I'm fine with them and understand people need to express their anger or whatever. I swear occasionally as well, but not in front of children, strangers, or relatives. I don't really know any friends who mind swearing terribly.

@ Fox and TF: Oh cock indeed. And it does make me chuckle but can't quite work out why :$

I think Vik's initial post said everything I'm thinking. When I was about 13-14 years old I was a right potty mouth. I guess it was a really dumb phase and the person who was made to look bad was myself. Anyway, I soon growed up and whilst at college I may as well have been a goody two shoes, except the times where I bunked my lessons, oops? But I didn't swear or curse for a good solid two years because in that time I was, imho, the best person I could be.

I admit to having a slight temper now and at times I could really swear like crazy when seriously provoked (irl - trolls don't get to me so don't bother :p) Personally when I'm really frustrated/annoyed/upset at present I'm faced with a few options; I swear, bottle it all up and explode by yelling like crazy, hurting someone close to me or causing myself some damage. If none of that happens then I become angry, eyes water and eventually tears flow. Personally, I'd prefer the absolute latter because nobody's hurt and I don't come out looking like a fool.

The last time I swore was yesterday (well, day before now) and it was because I couldn't take someone's crap behaviour towards me. Who looked like the arse? Me. It's nothing I'm proud of and I haven't stopped thinking about it since. This makes me understand why people swear when frustrated but I'm sure they regret it afterwards. When I make minor mistakes I say made up 'swear words' which are harmless or I say something stupid to myself. I think it's important to understand how frustration changes the way we react to situations we have little or no control over.

Having said all that, I think when people just use several offensive words in one go like "the f***ing dog f***ing did a s*** in my f***ing shoe! Then that's taking the biscuit. Get a new shoe. Oh and there's no need to over do the cursey words.

It does sadden me to see younger kids using bad language, particularly if they're still in primary school. I don't like the fact that some shows aired before 9pm or even 10pm for that matter use excessive bad language. Most kids stay up until 10pm so they hear this stuff and then they repeat what they hear.

I did like that Panorama prgramme about swearing and watched it on BBC iPlayer. I think some interesting points were raised and I like that Frank Skinner had the opportunity to justify what he said and did... although I don't agree with how he went about the disability thing >_<

As for comedians, they can swear if they want, it's their show and if they behave badly in anyone's eyes it reflects badly on them. So when they swear excessively or abuse certain individuals they look like idiots. I don't think comedians should swear because half the time it's not needed. I think censored versions would be helpful to younger audiences but that's just how I feel about it since studying drama. It creates opportunities is all.

I just watched (on BBC iPlayer) the World's strictest parents. The two teenagers from here went to Jamaica for ten days and the girls used offensive language in an essay she wrote about Jamaica. The reaction the Mother of the household had to the essay said it all. She didn't need to speak, it was all on her face.

This brings me on to culture. Different cultures have different ways of thinking, believing and doing things as well having different morals. What doesn't offend one person can affect another based on their backgrounds. It reminds me of that advert... HSBC??? Where a kid put his hand up and that was offensive in a culture, a man put his feet up on a table and that was offensive to another culture. It goes on and on but there are so many things which can affect how much swearing and offensive language bothers us.

If any of this didn't doesn't make sense, it's 1:29am, what do you expect?! :|

first time i ever learned one? was basically when i was about 6 or 7...someone had written the word on the bathroom stall in school XD was a huge issue i guess, no one was quite pleased with it either

Reminds me of the thoroughly depressing 'Catcher in the Rye'.

haha XD can u believe :P i actually read that book this year for english? :P

anywaysssss little comment to keep this on topic - nowadays i hear swearing by all sorts of little kids, and its probs because of things like it being written all over the place... so phooey that

/me curls up in the corner to avoid the coldness

Reminds me of the thoroughly depressing 'Catcher in the Rye'.

I don't likee that book. I was foul-mouthed the rest of the year >=(

I think it really does depend on the situation, when i'm with mates then whatever, but i wouldnt want to swear at a funeral or something!! that's just nasty.

I come from a family that never liked swearing, my parents were very hot on words like that, i suppose its the generation thing they was brought up more respectfull in yesteryear.
Myself personally well yes i swear sometimes, i also find some jokes are funnier with swearing content, suppose its also the way the person sounds out the word itself eg tone of voice ect.
I dont go round swearing willy nilly i may stub my toe and say on ffs, or something along those lines, i hate the C word its disgustng, but i dont lose respect for anyone who does use that word, its up to them.
I dont judge people on how they speak so if they swear so be it i can separate them from those words spoken, i would not change towards them if i like them i do end of story.
I think its more nasty to judge people and say oh you have less intelect because you swear thats rubbish, people express themselves differently thats life, if we was all the same well you know that saying.
At the end of the day ive known people from school teachers to policemen, to nurses to a drunk on the streets, i value them all the same swearing or otherwise, my head midwife on the labour ward has the mouth from hell, and shes one of the most intelligent women ive ever known and one of the nicest to boot.

Reminds me of the thoroughly depressing 'Catcher in the Rye'.

I actually found it mildly uplifting. Even though innocence is lost, it showed me that the world is not an entirely terrible place. Holden discovers love.

Anyway, I saw this thread and thought I'd post this:

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Can anyone explain why a "swear" word can be considered more offensive than a non-swear word with the same definition?...

In addition to Vik's great explanation, you also have to consider the difference between denotation and connotation. While poop and ♥♥♥♥ may denote the same thing (that is, both refer to excrement...), the connotations they both have are quite different. Language does not have a one-to-one correspondence to things and actions, it's much more vague than that.


Anyway, I soon growed up and whilst at college I may as well have been a goody two shoes...

Emphasis mine-- I found it kind of ironic ;)

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Anyway, swear words are not offensive in themselves, to me. To some people you just have to say 'f*ck' in a neutral, flat tone, and they'll tell you not to use the word. I'm not offended by 'my f*cking car broke down', either, and even if somebody calls me a f*cking idiot, that's still not going to make my blood boil.

What is much more offensive to me is a 'tailored' insult that really attacks what you've done, or what you are or stand for. Calling me 'lazy' at the right time in the right way can make me furious, for instance ...

Swear words can aid in that, but in them selves or used casually I don't mind them at all. Sure, if every other word is going to be 'f*ck', I'd get annoyed, but simply for the lack of style. If you used any other word as frequently I'd be annoyed too!



(Great posts by the way, Vik)

In addition to Vik's great explanation, you also have to consider the difference between denotation and connotation. While poop and ♥♥♥♥ may denote the same thing (that is, both refer to excrement...), the connotations they both have are quite different. Language does not have a one-to-one correspondence to things and actions, it's much more vague than that.

Although the differing connotations are really purely down to them being given different connotations.

"why is one offensive and one isn't?" could just as easily be "why does one have X connotations and one doesn't?" so that's not really an explanation, you've basically answered the question with an alternative way of expressing the point. The fact that they have different connoations is blindingly obvious, otherwise one would not be considered more offensive. You may as well have said "it's more offensive because it's more offensive". The point was why those differences exist and pointing them out is not an explanation for why they are there.

Example - "Why are tomatoes red?" the answer of your type would be "they are red because they reflect red light" - which is just another way of saying they are red and does not address the actual reasons for why they are reflecting red light.

Yes i get ya hinty, all i can say is that words of the same meaning maybe come from different dialect around the world or town to town ect.
When we used to live up north in one town you had the word slag ect yet the same word meant something different in another part of the same town ect.
Or as time goes on words are added to the dictionary new words come up all the time, these days kids all have there own jargon called street and some of its words have been added to our english dictionary, so my answer is just what ive said above its all i can come up with.:eek:

Grr, I typed an answer earlier, but then the door bell rang and I had to turn my computer off. So here's a shortened version.

Words obtain a bad connotation because people consciously decide they are bad words. A collection of letters is not in itself offensive, but people give them values, good or bad, and this is what creates taboo words. Word register/value is necessary to any society and that society decides consciously which words are of a low, or high register.

This is achieved through a variety of means, and with a variety of results. Sometimes a word which was used with regularity to denote something which was considered of 'lesser' value, is now considered taboo because the value of the thing which it denotes has increased. The results of this vary and don't always produce swear words. For example, the words 'miss' and 'mrs' to denote married or unmarried women have experienced a mild loss in value in certain circles. 'Ms' is now considered more polite than 'miss' for many and 'miss' can almost be used as a mild insult. Many words GAIN value if the object they are denoting also gains value in the collective conscience. 'Skoda' as a product name used to be a damnation, whereas today it's fairy respectable. The word that I can think of which has one of the worst connotations is the 'n' word used to describe black people. It was once commonplace and simply descriptive, but held the connotation of inferiority simply because of the time period in which it was used. As black people became treated as equals to white people, the word which held that connotation naturally became very taboo.

Another way in which a word can lose respectability is not quite as relevant in todays society, but has resulted in many of our 'best' and most long standing swear words - that of 'invasion'. Put very simply, if one country is invaded by another, and sets up government in the newly acquired land - you'd better learn the language of the newcomers pretty fast because your native language becomes secondary. Everyone knows that many swear words in English are good old fashioned Anglo-Saxon in origin. The language loses respectability and it follows that everyday words within that language lose respectability too. When those words were used to describe fairly base human experiences, then they gain a new status as swear words whereas other workaday words may retain their use with a more subtle definition than before. Certain swear words which have resulted from this 'invasion' model of language change are SO ingrained in our collective conscience that they could be considered almost permanent.

A third way that certain words become taboo is something I touched on in my first post on this subject - the power of rebellion :P The most mobile and ever changing part of the English language comes from teenagers. It's all part of rebelling and the urge to distinguish themselves from being seen as children, and not wanting to be seen as adults either. Of course, as soon as 'teen' words filter into common use, different words are needed to keep that distinction. Certain words are recycled, other are invented, yet others are given a new definition. That's the fastest and least permanent type of change to give us taboos.

Social climbing is also a huge factor in creating taboos. It's similar to, but not as fast as the previous point. The middle classes want to imitate the upper classes (usually failing miserably, lol) and the lower classes want to imitate the middle classes. As soon as the lower class adopt a word used by the middle class, the middle class need to find a new one to keep the distinction. This gives as many words which change register over a couple of decades - serviette v. napkin for example. A total register reversal. Words which are rejected first by the middle classes, and then by the lower classes eventually become taboo words.

Sorry, not so short afterall. The examples given are not particularly subtle, but they serve a purpose. The basic point is that words are considered good/bad/neutral/taboo by the people who use them. How else?

The basic point is that words are considered good/bad/neutral/taboo by the people who use them. How else?

Yes, I think we already agreed on that.

My trouble with it though, is:

I can accept that people can say "word A is inferior to word B" and so they may consider that only a lesser person would use word B; but it seems ridiculous to say "word C is offensive to me, and will hurt my feelings if it is used, while word D of same/similar meaning will not".

Finding a word offensive requires more than just considering a word inferior. You can't really choose to be offended or not offended by something.

I don't disagree with your points, but I do think what they show is that a lot of the thinking behind swear words is lame and represents "false" offense.

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A lot of what you're talking about refers to people being called things. I would say that these are offensive because they are reducing a person to a certain characteristic. Your "N" example still just means a black person, but when used to address someone it's usually being used to define that person by their skin colour. In the same way, "woman" just means an adult female, but were I to say "shut up, woman" you might find that offensive as I would be reducing you to just your gender and implying that you are defined by it.

Until now, what I have been talking about is people claiming to be offended by merely hearing a word which isn't even directed at them (or indeed, anyone else).

In fact, I think only one of my points refers to people being called things - the paragraph containing the 'n' word example, which also referred to 'miss'. This also contained the example of 'skoda' which clearly shows that the type of words that this type of language change produces are not always aggressively offensive (although are often so). The rest are about words in general, not necessarily used with aggressive intent.

The point was why those differences exist and pointing them out is not an explanation for why they are there.

This was the question I was answering - why certain words are different. The question that you ask now - about why certain people find certain words offensive is really a psychology question.

I get where you are coming from with wondering why someone would take offense at something so seemingly trivial, but really - I think there IS a need in society for people to take offense at mild indiscretions.

I've never studied psychology, so I might mash this up, but imo a large part of human behaviour revolves around, well, behaving nicely. Our lives are FULL of taboo and rules and breaking those rules could be the equivalent of swearing AT someone, or could be the equivalent of swearing in front of someone.

When someone breaks society's more subtle rules, people get very offended, or defensive, also when it's not directed at them at all. Someone has an affair and their name is dirt. Someone picks their nose in public and everyone thinks it's disgusting. Someone parks stupidly, and people who see it cluck their tongue in impatience. Someone swears, and people shake their heads. These things don't directly affect them, but they find it to be unacceptable behaviour in the same way that swearing generally doesn't affect them directly, but they still find it to be offensive - because of the low register, the causes of which I discussed in my previous post.

The only realistic way that a society can function is through these rules - we have to all try to live together nicely or else there would be chaos. If someone breaks the rules, even the very subtle ones, they are looked upon with impatience and intolerance. I think this is where the offense comes in. 'We're living by the rules, so should you'.

Of course, not everyone thinks along those lines - there are plenty who really don't care what others do, especially if their offense is very minor (swearing, for example). I think society needs a balance of the tolerant and intolerant in order to function. And of course, some people are tolerant about some things and not so tolerant about others. That includes being intolerant of intolerance, lol.

The fact that people often are amused by swearing on TV, or by comedians reinforces this - it's an example of when bad behaviour is allowed and does no harm.

If you're looking for an answer as to why a certain specific individual has a specific intolerance to swearing or a certain swear word at the time they get offended by it - well, it's better to ask them directly because I don't think that's an answer to cover everyone. It's personal taste, and there's no accounting for it :P

Forget about swearing being offensive..

You ALL offend me! :razz:

/me burps and leaves the thread

In fact, I think only one of my points refers to people being called things - the paragraph containing the 'n' word example, which also referred to 'miss'.

Yes, but it was the only point referring to offense.


I get where you are coming from with wondering why someone would take offense at something so seemingly trivial, but really - I think there IS a need in society for people to take offense at mild indiscretions.

I've never studied psychology, so I might mash this up, but imo a large part of human behaviour revolves around, well, behaving nicely.

But for this to be applied to swearing, the words need to have been considered offensive already. Otherwise they wouldn't be excluded from the "behaving nicely" bubble.


When someone breaks society's more subtle rules, people get very offended, or defensive, also when it's not directed at them at all. Someone has an affair and their name is dirt. Someone picks their nose in public and everyone thinks it's disgusting. Someone parks stupidly, and people who see it cluck their tongue in impatience. Someone swears, and people shake their heads. These things don't directly affect them, but they find it to be unacceptable behaviour in the same way that swearing generally doesn't affect them directly, but they still find it to be offensive - because of the low register, the causes of which I discussed in my previous post.

I don't really think any of these represent offense, just disapproval. I think there's a difference.

'We're living by the rules, so should you'.

Yes, someone with that thought is not being offended though, they just disapprove of the action.

It's interesting you've said that though, because that's probably the most likely explanation. I would think most people who dislike swearing are not remotely offended by it, but just disapprove of it.

The fact that they have different connoations is blindingly obvious, otherwise one would not be considered more offensive. You may as well have said "it's more offensive because it's more offensive". The point was why those differences exist and pointing them out is not an explanation for why they are there.

Well your initial question hardly reflected that you thought it was blindingly obvious. But anyway, what you seem to want to know is how words gain meaning. And what I pointed out is that 'meaning' has various layers. Not just the direct denotation, which you suggested in the post I responded to, but also 'deeper meanings'; connotations.

Why? Well, there have been a load of theories since the ancient Greeks started what we now call the philosophy of language. The most plausible theory to me remains that a word means something (both in the literal dictionary sense, and regarding deeper connotations) simply because of the way we use the words; in what contexts, in what ways, etcetera. If someone at one point thought 'sh*t' (as excrement) and an unfortunate situation made a good simile, and other people started copying that, then 'sh*t' gained another meaning...

I bet sound symbolism has something to do with it too; 'poo' sounds a bit childish to an English speaker; it's not harsh enough to be a swear word.

But really, why a word has a certain meaning is not really a straightforward question. My answer is in fact: "it's more offensive because it's more offensive"-- it is more offensive because we've made it so, or, rather, because it grew that way.

Why were you born here and not there? Because of an incredible amount of events that came together in certain ways over the course of history. If one event had been different, you would have been born elsewhere.