I have a question about theme-based drawings. At what point do a person's theme-based drawings drift too far away from the word given to that person? That is, "not actually drawing the word given to that person"?

For example, let's assume my "artistic theme" is "Teddy bear" and my word for this round is "coffee cup". I have seen such things as "Teddy bear holding coffee cup". Or "gigantic teddy bear face with coffee cup floating in the eyeball of the bear".

But at what point does one spend too much time drawing Van Gogh-quality Teddy Bears and nature scenes, along with deer, antelope, elk, and hunters, only to leave one second for the cup? Is there a point at which that qualifies as "not actually drawing the picture"?

What do you think?

Yeah, I don't mind if they do themed draws.. as long as they aren't over the top... and only once every now and then, some words can be really boring to draw.. =/ so yeah...but I do find it annoying if they do it every single draw, especially if they're not even good at drawing :(

Personally speaking, I want to dig a massive hole and put all the theme draws in it :(
I don't mind seeing one on occasion, but EVERY SINGLE DRAW? It's like having constant deja vu, and I loathe it.
I mainly sketch because I love drawing...and I LOVE watching other artists different styles...when i have to sit through the same draw a thousand times it makes me want to cry. And yes I know I can just leave the room :(

Good question... I have in the past done themed and elaborate drawings, mostly because it's fun to draw and makes it a bit more challenging for me trying to make each word a different kind of story for the theme.

The official rule is that the artist have the allotted time to draw the word and it's often frustrating when you're drawing that people don't seem to realise this. You aren't necessarily supposed to draw the word in the first two seconds and the time is there to be used. In connections recently, which more or less requires a different theme draw every round, people were voting me because I didn't draw the last word straight away and it was annoying because I had an idea of what I wanted to do.

Themed draws can go too far but as long as they make it explicit what the word is when they are done with nice arrows or something and don't leave it too late it's fine. I think you can only tell if they haven't actually drawn it until after the time which they are entitled to has elapsed. In which case ask them nicely to speed up a bit or vote if it keeps happening.

I know a lot of people hate themed draws though and don't like elaborations. I've mostly stopped doing them because you get loads of "omg all of that for sky lol??" or other protestations and I don't really want that attention. Plus when you know it's annoying people it's just awkward to keep doing it.

I don't do theme draws (although I draw my people in the same way in most draws it's hardly a theme)... however I do enjoy doing excessively convoluted or complicated drawings sometimes... it kinda makes it more interesting and I do enjoy seeing other people doing something unusual. If everyone just drew the thing exactly right and everyone did it in the same way then it wouldn't be much of a fun game. It'd be kinda like just walking around the house and identifying objects. "It's a CUPBOARD!" etc. Suuure people will say "omg what a waste of time" etc, but meh, it hardly matters what they say.

At the same time, if someone did do a theme draw in exactly the same way each time, I see how that would get annoying, especially if it's a forced link like your example of a nature scene with the cup just spadged in. I dunno if I'm leading to any sort of conclusion or anything here. Basically, for me I don't mind if there's a little bit of a theme which fits in naturally with the word, but I don't wanna see someone draw some character from a TV show that I don't know over and over and then just do the word next it or something. Gotta agree with Belli, too... if it makes for a nice picture I'd mind a lot less than if it was a bad drawing.

I quite like theme draws every now and again but I do find quite a few people dislike theme draws even though they are allowed. Yes, it can make the drawing more fun, but it also adds a certain degree of annoyance towards others in the room.

Even though the rules state that the artist has the whole allotted time to draw the given word, my own personal opinion would be to not leave drawing the given word until the last moment. Some people will just get fed up at the theme especially if it happens every time a particular artist is drawing, you may even incur a vote or two from annoyed players.

I would call the time taken to draw a theme drawing a relative grey area of the game, and just like letters such as "lol" and personal messages I stand by my quote:

As with all grey areas regarding letters, such as on-screen personal messages or "lol" written on screen, it's best to avoid using letters at all costs; use the symbols and smileys instead :)

This means in regard to any grey area of the game, just make sure you stay well within the rules, and everything will be fine :)

Theme draws are fine when:

a) They don't take too long to draw
b) They actually work with the word given.

e.g in the examples given by Mindraker, a teddy holding a cup is ok to me, but the cup in the eye of the bear is stupid and annoying, and I'd go as far to say that it comes under "unrelated drawings". Character draws work fine when they're not stupidly forced.

And an artist may well have the full length of time to draw their word, but using the majority of the time to draw unrelated things and eating into the 20 second grace period is just bad iSketching (and that goes for people who leave 3 second grace periods without even using theme draws too.) The time should be enough for drawing AND guessing, not just enough time for someone to finish their draw and then no room for guessing.

totally agree. If their theme links into the word its fine, but I hate when they either just erase their theme or just draw something in the corner with 5 seconds left that had nothing to do with everything else.
What upsets me was that in the rules on isketch it says this:

Improper conduct: Deliberate drawing of unrelated and/or sexually explicit/racist images; giving out the word in any way; harassing other players; using offensive language directed at other players; impersonating an iSketch administrator by username choice or otherwise. *(emphasis added)

and yet if you vote against them because of their 'deliberate drawing of unrelated images', which according to the rules is improper conduct, you get kicked out of the room for vote abuse. Lame.

totally agree. If their theme links into the word its fine, but I hate when they either just erase their theme or just draw something in the corner with 5 seconds left that had nothing to do with everything else.
What upsets me was that in the rules on isketch it says this:

Improper conduct: Deliberate drawing of unrelated and/or sexually explicit/racist images; giving out the word in any way; harassing other players; using offensive language directed at other players; impersonating an iSketch administrator by username choice or otherwise. *(emphasis added)

and yet if you vote against them because of their 'deliberate drawing of unrelated images', which according to the rules is improper conduct, you get kicked out of the room for vote abuse. Lame.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head. Some people who draw theme-based drawings happen to be very good artists. It's just that... how much time do we really need to spend watching the beautiful "teddy bear" theme be drawn over and over when we have a simple word like "coffee cup"? You're right -- there is a room for that, like "connections". Maybe they're just not aware of that.
I want to be sure the next time I encounter this being done repeatedly that I understand the rules and that I'm not overreacting myself.

I also find themed drawings to be kind of annoying sometimes because they're most often completely rooted in an inside joke. If you're not part of the in-crowd, or have just entered the room, you end up feeling stupid because you are guessing words that depict the theme, not the actual word.

Going along with the "teddy bear" theme, you'll be guessing things like "bear! stuffing! fur! picnic! ummm nose! ears! honey! bees? pooh! winnie the pooh! *@#&@*....bear?! teddy! forest...trees....$#*@#$!*(&#$&$#!...*oh, a mug in his eye*...hallucination! stoned? tea. reflection. see. vision!.....*time's up*" You get more and more frustrated and exacerbated ...while the other people who know that it is obviously not about the bear are able to enjoy themselves.

Of course, I probably wouldn't be guessing like such a n00b, but I had to pretend here to make my point....at least, that's what I'm going to tell myself. Let's not mention the fact that I probably typed all of those guesses into the chat box while db stands in the corner twirling his box of tabs around his finger. It's all hypothetical, people!!!!

But all kidding aside, I'm of the opinion that if they actually fit with the word at hand, they're well drawn, and people know what they are about, then they can make things much more exciting in a regular old game. Also, I think that aesthetic themes (say, always drawing in a certain style, with a certain tool, or with certain colours) are cool, effective, and a completely different ball of wax.

...and yet if you vote against them because of their 'deliberate drawing of unrelated images', which according to the rules is improper conduct, you get kicked out of the room for vote abuse. Lame.

If you do vote against someone for an unrelated drawing, it's probably best to wait until the draw has completely finished before voting, as the artist may well add the correct word before an admin intervenes. If, however, you are voting for a pornographic or racist draw, my advice is to vote as soon as you see it.

Edit:
When voting in Tandem it is best to be patient; don't vote as soon as you see letters, as one of these words above may be written. Make sure you are 100% positive your vote is legal before casting it.

I think the same applies to any room, make sure you are 100% positive your vote is legal before casting it, just in case you are accused of vote abuse.

I have a theoretical question about unrelated draws. Is it within the rules to draw something completely unrelated for the first 90% of your time, as long as you draw the word before the end of your time?

I have a theoretical question about unrelated draws. Is it within the rules to draw something completely unrelated for the first 90% of your time, as long as you draw the word before the end of your time?

Wouldn't that fall under the parameters of "Drawings intended to shock and confuse"? (See http://www.isketch.net/instructions/rules.shtml)

I've seen it where people are guessing in frustration at the unrelated drawing that has nothing to do with the answer. It is, indeed, "confusing", in my opinion.

I'll give you an example... John Doe is given a clue to draw "dog" but instead draws a jukebox, clears the screen, and then draws a lamp, then clears it, then draws the dog. People are confused and frustrated.

I have a theoretical question about unrelated draws. Is it within the rules to draw something completely unrelated for the first 90% of your time, as long as you draw the word before the end of your time?


According to three admins I have talked to they say that it is "ok and completely within the rules" to do that. Although I strongly disagree.

According to three admins I have talked to they say that it is "ok and completely within the rules" to do that. Although I strongly disagree.

Artists are fully entitled to use the entire draw time to draw. As long as they start drawing within a reasonable amount of time and make their point before the time ends, a vote for unrelated drawings may very well be considered vote abuse. Of course this rule can have many interpretations, but generally if the intention is to draw a nice pic and not annoy, it's all good.

Now if it's to annoy, that's different. :mad:

According to three admins I have talked to they say that it is "ok and completely within the rules" to do that. Although I strongly disagree.

I'm going to express my disagreements here on this matter, too.

If one gets the word "ark", one should be drawing an "ark", something that sounds like "ark", a "sounds like (p)ark/(sh)ark/(m)ark/etc.", something that will logically lead up to "ark", the phonetic subcomponents of "ark", but not "dog".

but not "dog".

Were there no dogs on Noah's Ark?

Were there no dogs on Noah's Ark?

It was just a theoretical example. If one gets the word "widget", one should be drawing "widget", but not "banana".

I know it was a theoretical example. I was merely pointing out that it didn't work purely for humour :p (although using an example which fails kind of nullifies any point you're trying to make).

I know it was a theoretical example. I was merely pointing out that it didn't work purely for humour :p (although using an example which fails kind of nullifies any point you're trying to make).

One still doesn't draw "ark" by drawing dogs all round long. One draws a boat.

i love to draw my moobies on every draw but people get them confused with a woman's breasts.

i therefore draw a hairy chest to give it a manly appearance but it just ends up looking like Susan Boyle

It was just a theoretical example. If one gets the word "widget", one should be drawing "widget", but not "banana".

"widget"... someone has been taking too many economics classes...:biggrin:

I'm going to express my disagreements here on this matter, too.

If one gets the word "ark", one should be drawing an "ark", something that sounds like "ark", a "sounds like (p)ark/(sh)ark/(m)ark/etc.", something that will logically lead up to "ark", the phonetic subcomponents of "ark", but not "dog".


BUT surely dogs bARK?
I believe this is called a "zebadger".....when you draw a word that contains the answer in it...ie. sTAR for TAR, cRUMb for RUM etc etc...I actually do this a hell of a lot for the boring words, livens it up a bit.
And I don't even like mash.
Go figure.

Aha, bark aswell!

And there's plenty of dogs in the (p)ark example too :)

I once saw a South Russian (Ovch)ark(a) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Russian_Ovcharka) in the park.

Anyway, take a joke Mindraker.

BUT surely dogs bARK?
I believe this is called a "zebadger".....when you draw a word that contains the answer in it...ie. sTAR for TAR, cRUMb for RUM etc etc...I actually do this a hell of a lot for the boring words, livens it up a bit.
And I don't even like mash.
Go figure.

Zebadgers do exist, yes, and I do use them, too. But neither "dogs" nor "widgets" rhyme with everything in the English language. Therefore, you still wouldn't have the same unrelated picture each and every round, especially, in sequence.

Cog? bog? log? or if one was very creative, blog?

midgets?

well yeah..but in this instance I was merely suggesting that drawing a dog for ARK was not necessarily unrelated....
anyways...
bleh
that is all :P

well yeah..but in this instance I was merely suggesting that drawing a dog for ARK was not necessarily unrelated....
anyways...
bleh
that is all :P

Elfy, that's just the point. There are people who are repeatedly not drawing related drawings. I have no problem seeing a person using a widget to draw the word or related word to be drawn, if that's the word to be drawn. But that's not what's happening.

What's happening is people are having repeated unrelated drawings of a widget with things like "volcano, pizza, house, cellar... etc." and then people are wondering, "why is there a widget being drawn?"

I don't want to name specific drawing examples, because I feel that's going to be inappropriate. I used "dog" because that was not one that I had encountered.

well yeah..but in this instance I was merely suggesting that drawing a dog for ARK was not necessarily unrelated....
anyways...
bleh
that is all :P

I agree with you. It takes creativity to make a BP or a pun out of things, but it's not unrelated. Possibly misleading, yes, but that's what gives regular players some interest.

Wouldn't it be just fantastic if every single time, people just drew an exact representation of their word? I think it would be incredibly boring. It's fun seeing people's senses of humour come out in the ways that they draw the easy words. That's what makes the game more personal, and it's what keeps people coming back. I dunno...for me, it's about the people playing, not about the scores or the quality of the drawing.

I'm not sure how often I have seen anyone draw something so incredibly opposite to their word on purpose, unless they end up drawing a penis or something of that nature (in which case, it is a vote for pornographic content and not unrelated drawing). Often, it seems like an unrelated draw is unintentional (like when "cirrus" is misread as "circus" for instance) and I think you just need to chalk that up to human error and not let it destroy your iSketch experience.

How did this thread morph from theme-based drawings to unrelated drawings???

Edit: I only just noticed that Mindraker had replied at the same time as me. Can someone enlighten me (because I seem to be too lazy to Wiki or Google it) as to what in the world a widget is, and why it is being repeatedly drawn by so many people? :twisted:

Edit: I only just noticed that Mindraker had replied at the same time as me. Can someone enlighten me (because I seem to be too lazy to Wiki or Google it) as to what in the world a widget is, and why it is being repeatedly drawn by so many people? :twisted:

Just think of "widget" as a theoretical drawing -- we don't have to know what it actually "is". We're not actually discussing "dog drawings", we're discussing "irrelevant repeated drawings". Hence, we're using the term "widget" instead. Apparently people got confused when I gave the example of someone using a "dog" as their theme drawing, so I am using the term "widget" instead.

Someone's "theme" is a... "whateveritis"... "widget". It doesn't matter what the subject is.

Wasn't confused :( you said "dog" and in my world "dog" means "dog"...try putting the word "hypothetical" in there perhaps....
And anyways, a widget is a thingy that goes in beer cans for some reason known mainly to brewers.....
So there.
/flirt childishness.

Tee hee

/me also flirts with childishness

In light of this new information provided by elfy....a drawing of a "widget" would be entirely appropriate for any of the following words:
brewery, beer, can, ale, whale, male, sale...........


/me apologizes to Admins for shamelessly provoking the ridiculousness of this thread

Just a small thing to consider here ... is that there are many different ethnic groups who play on iSketch and all groups are welcome in any room.

However that opens some words that differ in interpretations that we may be used to.

To vote an unrelated draw ... is almost impossible to determine until AFTER the draw.

The exceptions of course is someone who ALWAYS draws unrelated.

Theme drawers though USUALLY INTEND to draw their word - but have chosen a creative way of doing it ... which iSketch encourages creativity as long as the following things are adhered to:

The word is drawn without violation.
The theme is not a violation in itself.

So it's really down to intent - as to whether they are playing in the spirit of the game.

Some theme drawers I aboslutely love and others I find annoying.

Under the heading: Drawing Tips in the rules.

You will find we are encouraged to use the whole time to be creative.

EDIT:

*** Clarification of a Theme draw ***

The drawer isn't allowed to spend too much time on doing a theme draw that has no relation to the word.

I saw some disagreement today between a player and an unnamed admin today in regards to themed draws.

Can any admin from the game clear up what the rules state when it comes to a themed draw?

Quoting admin:
Rob has instructed all admins that if a word is not being drawn by the half way point, it is a violation

I also thought that the word was actually drawn quite quickly even though it was part of a theme but that is my own personal opinion. I just got a bit distracted by the constant communications between the player and admin.

I think Nuka's post (http://www.isketchforum.net/showpost.php?p=186748), NoHints' post (http://www.isketchforum.net/showpost.php?p=186634) and 2.0's post (http://www.isketchforum.net/showpost.php?p=186665) earlier in this thread have all hit the nail on the head with regards to theme drawings. I don't think there is a explicit specified rule for theme drawings, but in my own opinion these two quotes from the rules implicitly relate to these theme-based draws.

The game consists of 10 rounds where one person is given a word to draw, while the other players will try to guess it within a designated time.

Take your time, don't rush! Allow as much detail as possible in the allotted time.

As long as the artist draws the correct word with enough time for players to guess after the given word is drawn, then it is a theme draw and is therefore allowed. If not, then it can be regarded as an unrelated drawing.

Perhaps there should be a specific part of the instructions dedicated to outlining the rules on theme drawings?

Oh thanks for that!

So can I take it that what the admin said was either not true or misconstrued?

So can I take it that what the admin said was either not true or misconstrued?

Personally I would say yes, but you could always ask for clarification by Rob himself, or by e-mailing Feedback :)

My thoughts here is that the admin knowingly lied. I will report this back to feedback since their comment was pretty clear and direct about the halfway point and I'll send over the screenshots of the admin making these false claims.


http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2594/adminclaims.jpg

Thanks for your suggestion!

yeah i think that needs a bit more editing :/

I think you're being a bit harsh, afterglow. Admins don't go around making false claims for the hell of it.

Sure, when you break up the rules and analyse them it may seem there are no regulations - but who knows how recently updated they are. And if Rob has instructed the admin differently, then I think that stands at a slightly higher level. Of course this should be stated in the rules, I realise that.

This admin was merely doing their job, as instructed by Rob, and therefore I think some consideration should be given. Their intentions were clearly to help others understand the rule, not to start confusing others by making wild or false claims. As you can see, no-one really understands the rule, and if the admin has been instructed by Rob, I think that is where it should stand.

And as elfy mentioned, please be wary of the editing in your post and double check to make sure you leave the admin unnamed in all boxes of the game.

It looks as though the issue of themed drawings is a bit of a grey area and needs some addressing in the rules.

By considering the "Improper conduct" rule (deliberate drawing of unrelated ... images), it doesn't specify whether these unrelated images are not allowed at any time or are not allowed only when the actual word isn't eventually drawn. I'd assume that, given iSketch is an art-based game, it wouldn't knowingly want to disallow themed drawings, so this should be clarified.

So, assuming themed drawings are allowed, according to db's 2 quotes above, the artist can use all the time available to him/her to draw the theme + the word. If Rob has instructed that the word needs to be drawn by the halfway point (otherwise it is a violation), then that needs to be amended in the rules because it would contradict what is currently there. Until it is written there, it's just hearsay.

To afterglow, I'd say that the admin should have no reason to lie about Rob's instruction so the best bet is to email Feedback (including the screenshot) asking for the rule to be added, if it is true.

Thanks for your suggestion!

yeahh I can see you didn't want to follow it :/

Out of interest, what was the answer to that awful draw?

No dis-respect to who whoever did it!

Just curious?

I feel for Korey, saying vertabre, when it was vertebra.

Ho hum!

It looks as though the issue of themed drawings is a bit of a grey area and needs some addressing in the rules... ...Until it is written there, it's just hearsay.

Agreed. Hopefully something will be written on the official instructions pages to clarify the definition of a themed draw as opposed to an unrelated draw.