I'm not so sure anymore about all this. I thought from day one something wasn't right. The parents showed no emotion at all for their missing daughter now i'm sorry but if that had been any family i know they wouldn't have been able to control their emotions.

I find it bizarre how throughtout the night of maddie's disappearance that a few people checked on the children but it was when Kate went back to make sure the kids were ok that Maddie had disappeared, when SHE went back hmmmm. Is it just me or is there something far wrong there?!?!?!

I really do hope they had nothing to do with their daughters disappearance but if they have done this they will be the most hated couple around the world appealing for something that they have done all along and to be honest i don't think they should have their other two children around them while their be pinned as suspects.

What are your veiws on the whole thing?!?!

I really do hope they had nothing to do with their daughters disappearance but if they have done this they will be the most hated couple around the world appealing for something that they have done all along and to be honest i don't think they should have their other two children around them while their be pinned as suspects.

What are your veiws on the whole thing?!?!

You would take the other children away from their parents based on suspicion ???:eek: So much for innocent until proven guilty. Personally I don't really want to hear anymore about the whole business unless some firm proof is found about anything. There are many more children in the world that have been snatched or murdered during the time this whole media circus has been going on and whilst I am natural very sad for this poor little girl she is no more important or special than any of the others.

You would take the other children away from their parents based on suspicion ???:eek: So much for innocent until proven guilty. Personally I don't really want to hear anymore about the whole business unless some firm proof is found about anything. There are many more children in the world that have been snatched or murdered during the time this whole media circus has been going on and whilst I am natural very sad for this poor little girl she is no more important or special than any of the others.

Damn right BB. This case has got SO much hype and made into a media circus...it's just unbelievable. Yes i do hope that madeline is found alive and well.....but what about all the other hundreds of kids that go missing every year in the UK???
Next you'll be sseing the movie rights being sold for Missing Madeline :rolleyes:

what i meant by their other two children not being around all this is that they should be at home with other family members while their parents are going through this i didn't mean that social services should take them away.

Yes i agree this case seems to have had more coverage than other missing children n i don't agree with that at all there are children missing all over the UK n that is horrible to think about but yes it is true but for some reason this particular case has been put out worldwide.

I do hope maddie is found alive and well n i'm not saying her parents DEFFO!! done this but the evidence is starting to go that way is it not?!?!

i'm not saying her parents DEFFO!! done this but the evidence is starting to go that way is it not?!?!

Is it?

What evidence have they actually released pointing to Kate being guilty?
They found blood or some other DNA in the hire car, right? Has it even been matched with the DNA of Madeleine?

I watched a lot of coverage yesterday, since Kate has been named a formal suspect, and I've just been looking on the internet, and apparently Gerry has now been named a formal suspect too.

There were some comments left on one news story on the internet, and one which surely needs following up is

WELL, WHO HAD that VEHICLE the night Madeleine went missing!!! That is a small area. It seems likely that if there was blood in the vehicle, the person that had it rented the night she went missing would be the suspect.

Also, when Kate was first named a formal suspect, the news was that she was named the "second formal suspect."
Who's the first? Shouldn't they be following that up?
(Edit - or was that Robert Murat?)

yes i think the first suspect was Robert Murat.

surely they wouldn't have them down as suspect if they had no reason behind it?

The police questioned them before at the very beginning which is protocall anyway but to bring them in again a few months down the line surely the police have something to go on?!?! Or are they clutching at straws?!?!

I believe babybabes asked for your opinions as this is a debate thread. Im surprised to see some posts that look to me like she is being shot down in flames for voicing her opinion. if you dont want to see anymore about this dont read the thread.

Having lost children myself i remember how painful it is and i would not wish that on anyone, but Maddie's parents never seem to have looked like they were that upset. Now i know people do react in different ways to hurt and loss but it does seem strange that they seem never have to looked particurlarly sad. I have mixed thoughts about whether I think the parents hurt her in some way. We as parents can never imagine doing anything to hurt our children but sadly in this world there are some very very bad people who do very bad things to their kids. The police must have good reason to be questioning them, they are hardly likely to do it on a whim!

I believe babybabes asked for your opinions as this is a debate thread. Im surprised to see some posts that look to me like she is being shot down in flames for voicing her opinion. if you dont want to see anymore about this dont read the thread.

Having lost children myself i remember how painful it is and i would not wish that on anyone, but Maddie's parents never seem to have looked like they were that upset. Now i know people do react in different ways to hurt and loss but it does seem strange that they seem never have to looked particurlarly sad. I have mixed thoughts about whether I think the parents hurt her in some way. We as parents can never imagine doing anything to hurt our children but sadly in this world there are some very very bad people who do very bad things to their kids. The police must have good reason to be questioning them, they are hardly likely to do it on a whim!

I don't think anyone was shooting her down in flames....we too were voicing our opinion. Like you said...it's a debate. She asked for our opinions...we gave them.

No-one can assume who is responsible for Madeline's disappearance.....we do not know the facts. Many they don't have enough evidence to pin Rupert down for it? Though he was the first suspect to be arrested for it seems they have a lot on him.

The law in portugal seems to be different and questioning somebody as a "formal suspect" apparently means that they have more rights ie they can ask for lawyers etc and the police can ask her direst accusatory questions. Im unsure how to give you the link but if you look on the daily telegraph site today it explains what a formal suspect in portugal is quite well. Its not the same as a formal suspect over here.

And im sorry but it did indeed (IMO) look like baby was shot down.

It is said that the couple left their children alone in their apartment and went for dinner, with one of them returning to check on the children every 20 minutes. For those who suspect the parents are involved, I have to say that 20 minutes isn't a big window to be witness to/part of an event of this type and then cover it to such an extent that Maddie can't be found.

BB is absolutely right when she notes that the publicity over this case is out of hand. Far too many children go missing/are kidnapped/are murdered every day in this world. Surely every child matters and should be given the same attention in these cases?

While losing a child is absolutely tragic and to some extent, not knowing what's become of them is even worse, the glaring double standard involved in this case is worrying. Had a single parent benefit claimant left her children alone to go for dinner I am certain that parent may have been prosecuted by now. At the very least they would have been utterly vilified by the British press. Someone who is a professional is not above suspicion morally or legally.

Looking at the facts though, we know there are three main suspects in this case. These are Maddie's parents and Robert Murat. What do all three have in common? They are not Portuguese. If Maddie was taken, she could have been taken by anyone, not just those from her home soil.

In a time where everyone is looking for lucidity regarding Maddie's disappearance it might be more prudent to accept that we may never know what happened to this lovely little girl. This wont stop me wishing for her safe return for her and all our lost children.

I do hope no-one in this thread feels that they have been shot down. I don't think that's the case. It's a topic that stirs strong emotions and strong opinions in people. Those opinions have been expressed on all sides. Views were asked for, and given, and I'd hate to think that anyone wouldn't want to give their views through fear of being shot down when in actuality, ALL the views and opinions that have been shown here are equally valid and correct.

My opinion is a bit controversial. I think that people's view of the case might have been changed because it took place off British soil. I have heard a lot of criticism of the Portugese police and how they are handling the case, overtly from friends and family, and in covert insinuation via various online news networks. I think the reason people are so interested in this poor kid and her ordeal is that it took place abroad and that either people do not trust foreign police to do the same job as Brit police, or they simply have a grim fascination to know what verdict they will come to cause it's all new and exciting. Unfortunately the media will choose stories like this to turn into a spectacle, especially if there is the chance of a bit of Europe bashing along the way, and especially if there is hope for the child in which case they can really tap into the genuine well of public emotion and exploit it.

Here's some advice that I give to my parents whenever they pour over the Daily Mail, tutting at the contents. DON'T BUY THE BLOODY THING! But, people love a moan. Ho hum.

As to whether the parents did it or not - how can any of us know? We haven't seen the evidence, heard the testimonials or questioned any witnesses. We'll just have to wait and see.

Ok put the media bandwagon aside for a moment, yes big story sells many papers thats the media im afraid, it could be madonna adopting anoter baby or another missing child, it sells end of.
Now to evidence apparently the portugal police are looking in to the missing half hour fiasco, witnesses who had dinner with the mc canns on the night maddie went missing are saying that, the coulpe arrived at the diner at 854, the mc canns are saying they turned up at 930 pm???.
The main witness who is a close friend of the mc canns also says she can be 100 percent positive that the mc canns arrived at 854, cause she met gerry mc cann on the stairwell as she came down from checking her own children, who was also left alone while she stuffed her face( sorry 4 that but i hate kids being left alone ).
So the police feel that the missing half an hour gives one of the mc cann parents ample time to hide a body and return to the diner.
Also the hire car in question has been found to have blood spatters in side it, as to if its maddies or not im not sure but i think i heard it was hers.
Also sniffer dogs picked up on what they called a death smell, but thats being said to be either from mrs mc cann as she worked with dead bodies in her job, i dont get that bit myself, surely she has showered since being on holiday and swam ect how can she still have the smell. anyway to continue.
Also its said that if maddies body had been in the hire car much more dna evidence would have been presant in the car more than what was found anyway.
Im following this story big time as i have all along, i also found the mc canns lacking in emotion, but ive seen this before on tv with others parents of missing kids, i cant condem them for not screaming like a banshee like i would have been doing.
But also why would maddies blood be in a hire car, 25 days after she went missing, they dident have the car before she went missing it was only rented after she went cause of the traveling they was doing in there search.
What does that tell us, are the mc canns so stupid that being in the medical profession they wouldent know how to clean dna samples and blood properly, did the kidnapper by some chance hire the exact same hire car???,did the police hire this car for the mc canns in the search as help for them if yes, is a police man the kidnapper. killer ect. you never know a police man could have done this to cover his own arse its possible.
The speculation is endless so im waiting for proper evidence also in this terrible matter, all i wish is for her to still be alive, i dont care who took her as they will get there just desserts just let her be alive.
My loves and thoughts to you maddie darling wherever you are hunny.:cry:

What I don't understand is how the reports don't seem to know what was actually found in the hire car.

in which police claim to have found traces of Madeleine’s blood or DNA

I read something different this morning which also said 'blood or DNA' but I can't find the page now - I think it's been updated since with more recent news.

However, the following quote seems to make it pretty clear that it can hardly be Madeleine's blood found in the car:

One of Britain's leading forensic scientists, who asked not be named, said: "If they are spots of blood, it could not be from a car used by the McCanns 25 days later. That doesn't make sense.

"The blood would have dried and it would not transfer as spots unless the child is alive. It would be fragments [of dried blood].

The same article also says
John Barrett ... also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.

The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.
So unless whatever they're claiming has happened within the last month (which is ridiculously unlikely, seeing as it's been four months since Madeleine's disappearance), surely this 'death smell' is entirely unrelated, if even true.

Who knows tasha, we arnt there, and we arnt scientists.
But i will say this the portugal police feel they have something so only time will tell, also it matters not if the blood was spots or dried fragments either way DNA tecnolagy will tell us if its maddies or not then from there a picture of events can be built and a case or suspects found hopefully.
Cases 20 years old have been solved useing DNA tests so we can only hope in this case that they can do the same.
What annoys me in this whole affair is that the mc canns are annoyed that they cannot use the 800.000 pounds from maddies fund to cover there legal bills, i really wouldent have thought anyone who had lost a child in this or any way would even be thinking of the cost of anything.
Those funds were sent by people who wanted to help find maddie not to make lawyers richer still, ok ok if they are innocent then of course i dont think anyone would mind them useing it, but for now no one it seems is above suspision in this case, so why should they use it to battle in courts thats not right.
David beckham said in the paper today that the money he gave was to help find that child end of , those was his words:cry:
Also tasha hun can you tell me again what that person said about the car and the dna i couldent make out what you said, im really following this up so if you would be so kind as to post what was said or pm the details id be most gratefull cheers hun xxx

I've PMed you in response to the last bit.

What annoys me in this whole affair is that the mc canns are annoyed that they cannot use the 800.000 pounds from maddies fund to cover there legal bills, i really wouldent have thought anyone who had lost a child in this or any way would even be thinking of the cost of anything.
Those funds were sent by people who wanted to help find maddie not to make lawyers richer still, ok ok if they are innocent then of course i dont think anyone would mind them useing it, but for now no one it seems is above suspision in this case, so why should they use it to battle in courts thats not right.

I'm not sure I completely agree with you there.
This money was donated to help with this case. It hasn't been used to pay for the McCanns' accomodation or anything else so far, and when this first started, would you have predicted that the McCanns would have become the prime suspects?
The money was donated to help them bring back their daughter. If fighting their case in court will clear their names and hopefully get the police on a new trail, then surely the money will be put to good use?

I've PMed you in response to the last bit.


I'm not sure I completely agree with you there.
This money was donated to help with this case. It hasn't been used to pay for the McCanns' accomodation or anything else so far, and when this first started, would you have predicted that the McCanns would have become the prime suspects?
The money was donated to help them bring back their daughter. If fighting their case in court will clear their names and hopefully get the police on a new trail, then surely the money will be put to good use?
When you put it like that tasha i have to agree with you, your statement has made me see what i wrote in a new light hun.
Thanks for makeing us see it from another point of view.:razz:

I suppose we can speculate and speculate but we'll never know the full facts till they find out who took Madeline.
My opinion is that.....i think now...the Mccans are being framed for her death. The portugese police are tired of this case as it has dragged on for so long and they haven't found anything. So what's the best thing to do....end it by pinning down the parents for her murder. I think they want this case to finish and they want all the media and Madeline's parents to leave Portugal. I mean....they even tried to make a deal with her saying that they'll only give her 2 years if she admits it?? Sounds fishy to me.

I completely agree with you.

Looking on the internet just now, the top link that comes up is a series of questions, one of which is:

What evidence were police looking for?

Detectives are searching for any evidence that proves Madeleine is dead or contradicts the accounts of Mr and Mrs McCann and other witnesses.

This seems to pretty much back up what you said, Tigs. They're just looking for reasons to charge them, in my opinion.

However, the article does make the point:

Kate and Gerry and their two-year-old twins would have often carried in the car items used by Madeleine. These items could easily certainly carry Madeleine’s hair and minute traces of skin, dried blood, saliva and vomit. The same could be said of the holiday apartments used by the McCanns and their friends in the Ocean Club resort. However, if the blood came from Madeleine’s corpse the only other highly unlikely explanation would be that a previous hirer had moved the body.
Surely that doesn't need much explanation. It's pretty logical.

You might want to read the whole article, which can be found here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece?token=null&offset=0)

Wow the plot thickens, ive just read that link tasha and im shocked, unless they can 100 percent claim the mc canns have anything to do with maddies disapearence, why dont they just keep it all out of the media its bloody disgusting.

I have sat and read everyones threads, and am quite intrested as to everyones views.

For a start, I would NEVER EVER leave my kids unattended.

Usually I do sit on the fence when it comes to things like this. Did they really do it ? If so why Maddie ? Or is it the fact that the Portuguese Police are looking for a scapegoat ? Was there really a syringe found ? Or was it planted ? In this case there are so many unanswered questions. Missing moments that can't be accounted for. The only person that can answer these questions, is the person/persons that were present at the time of her disappearance.

It has now come on Sky News, about new evidence on the McCann case

As people have stated, if THEY did do it, they will be the most HATED people across the globe


sky news (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283359,00.html)

well at the mo i don't have alot to say on this matter apart from i think it's all starting to unfold n i think these parents are going to be charged for this especially with the new evidence that confirms maddie's DNA in the boot of the car

I have been following the news carefully on this subject, mostly because it's there and I just read it. But in terms of opinions of what's going on and who to pin-point, etc.. I have to say I'm keeping a close mind until an outcome comes from it all. It's so very easy to speculate and make up stories of what *could* have happened. I'd rather not see them as guilty or innocent until there is an official outcome and the truth gets revealed - whatever it is.

That said, the new evidence is very shocking. Not quite what you expect. It's opened up more doors of speculations and unsolved answers. I do hope that an outcome comes very soon from this.

This has just been posted on the sky news website:

Large amount of Madeleine's hair 'found in boot of
parents' hire car'
Substantial quantities of Madeleine
McCann's hair were found in the boot of
her parents' hire car, it's been revealed.

Investigators are convinced so much hair
was found that her body must have been
stored in the vehicle, which was hired
more than three weeks after she
disappeared.

The dramatic new evidence adds further
pressure on Kate and Gerry McCann, who
may now face charges over the death of
the missing four-year-old in days.

But Gerry McCann has reiterated his
insistence that they had "nothing" to do
with the disappearance of their daughter,
adding he Kate were "100 per cent
confident" of each other's innocence - and
would prove it to the world.

Senior police leading the investigation in
Portugal said detectives from the Algarve
will travel to Britain later this week as the
investigation intensifies.

Sources today told the Evening Standard
Newspaper: "Some of the samples of DNA
were taken from hair which match
Madeleine's DNA. There was so much hair
it could not be from DNA transference but
from the body being in the boot."

The source said that DNA from bodily
fluids also found in the boot of the Renault Scenic car, hired by Kate and Gerry
McCann 25 days after her disappearance, was a "90 per cent match" rather
than the 100 per cent being widely reported.

I was just reading this in the Daily Telegraph:-

Sources close to the case said the traces - understood to be blood - were being treated by Portuguese detectives as strong evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment before her body was placed in the car. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/07/nmaddy907.xml)
Police in the Algarve apparently now believe they have enough evidence to charge her parents, Kate and Gerry, with "accidentally" killing the four-year-old and hiding her body. A file on the case will today be sent to a prosecutor who could order the couple to return to Portugal to face charges this week.
The McCanns, who were named last week as official suspects in the case, have claimed that they were being "framed" over their daughter's disappearance 131 days ago.
But a source close to the Portuguese investigation said that the prevailing mood among detectives was that: "The parents have a lot of explaining to do."
The source claimed that two DNA samples found in the McCanns' hire car - one apparently a full match to Madeleine and one partial - were of a type that suggested they had come directly from her body, rather than from clothes she had worn.
The development came as:
Social workers and police met to discuss the welfare of the McCanns' two-year-old twins, who could be placed on an "at-risk" register.
Police in Praia da Luz were preparing to search the villa where the McCanns had been staying until Sunday.
Kate McCann faced fresh slurs in the Portuguese media, with claims that she was aggressive towards her children and sometimes "out of control".
The McCanns were given police advice on how to deal with hate mail after a backlash against them gathered pace in Britain. The McCanns have vowed to fight to clear their names, and hired two of the country's leading solicitors, Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, to advise them.
Sources close to the investigation revealed that the DNA evidence - analysed by the Forensic Science Service in Britain - was regarded by Portuguese police as crucial.
A sample that was a full match to Madeleine's DNA was allegedly found on the windowsill of the McCanns' apartment at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. Although the nature of the sample was not disclosed, previous reports claimed that blood had been found by sniffer dogs.
One Portuguese newspaper claimed that "biological fluids" with an 80 per cent match to Madeleine were found under the carpet in the boot of the McCanns' hire car, which was rented 25 days after she disappeared.
Forensic experts in the UK have pointed out that if the samples found in the car were hair or skin they would be of little evidential value as they could have rubbed off Madeleine's toys or clothing.
But there were fresh reports claiming that both samples were blood, and one source close to the inquiry told The Daily Telegraph that the nature of the samples led police to believe that they had come from Madeleine's body being placed in the car.
The Portuguese police's theory is apparently that Madeleine was killed by accident by one or both of her parents, and that her body was hidden before being disposed of a month later using the hire car.The McCanns have reacted with fury to the claims, accusing the police of a "stitch-up" and pointing out that they could not have moved a body when the eyes of the world were constantly upon them in the weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.

According to sky news the evidence on the McCanns HAS been passed onto the prosectors. So now it's just a matter of waiting and seeing what they decide. In all honesty i'm pretty sure they will charge Kate McCann going on the evidence they have. Not sure about Gerry McCann at the moment can't make up my mind about him.

If she killed her he must have known........no?

i don't know he might have done but then again you just never know. Kate could have done this all by herself without him knowing but then again maybe not. I just don't know what to think anymore apart from i think Kate will defo be charged.

I just don't know. Maybe they ARE being stitched up. Putting aside the fact that the person they may have killed is their own daughter (accidently or otherwise) and that that would surely make any parent as emotionally fraut as if their daughter had been killed by someone else, the police seem to think they are clever enough to hide the body someplace before moving it later on, suggesting a carefully planned action in the second instance at least - and yet dumb enough not to see the substatial amount of hair left at the end? They are worldly wise enough to know where to start with hiding a murder, but not smart enough not to shed the odd tear on TV?

I just don't see how it adds up. Something is not quite right there.

I'm hearing it could have been an accident, and yet the picture being painted in some sources seems to be of a calous and calculating couple.

I just dont know anymore, im fed up speculating.
If it is the mc canns, wouldent they have been more aware of DNA and forensics.???????.
Accident or otherwise, they have jobs in the medical field they would have known how to clean up DNA evidence ect.
This dosent add up at all, what the hell is going on .

I just dont know anymore, im fed up speculating.
If it is the mc canns, wouldent they have been more aware of DNA and forensics.???????.
Accident or otherwise, they have jobs in the medical field they would have known how to clean up DNA evidence ect.
This dosent add up at all, what the hell is going on .


but cherry u can't always clean up DNA. Traces of it will always be found they have special equipment for that kind of thing to see someone has tried to clean up DNA. It's called Luminol. It detects it DNA even if someone has tried to clean it up.

It is all getting very confusing but i have a feeling i know what the outcome is going to be. There's not alot more we can say on this for now until the prosecutors make their decision whether they charge them or not.

but cherry u can't always clean up DNA. Traces of it will always be found they have special equipment for that kind of thing to see someone has tried to clean up DNA. It's called Luminol. It detects it DNA even if someone has tried to clean it up.
True, but they've found loads of hair as well haven't they? You'd think if it was the McCanns, they'd have at least cleared up the visible evidence.

It is all getting very confusing but i have a feeling i know what the outcome is going to be. There's not alot more we can say on this for now until the prosecutors make their decision whether they charge them or not.
Again true, but the evidence is all so contradictory that even if they do charge the McCanns, will we ever be 100% sure?
The only way we can really know is if someone confesses, or Madeleine is found.


Some guys in my tutor were talking about it this morning. There were mixed opinions as to whether the parents were involved, but they all seem pretty confident that Madeleine is dead. As much as I don't want to believe it, I have to admit it does seem pretty likely.
If her parents were involved, then there can't be much doubt that she was killed, whether accidental or not.
But if she was abducted... where is she now? How often is a child taken and just kept for four months?

It might be that we never know what happened.

yeah i agree as much as i hate saying it i think little maddie is dead i know that's awful to say but i think alot of people think the same thing. i'm just not so sure if her body will ever be found :(.

IF she has been abducted and is alive i still don't think she'll be found that poor like girls identity and everything will have been changed and the thing is as she grows up she'll never really know who she really was, she'll only know who she is due to who ever has her and that she was that missing little girl that the whole world were looking for, cause i'm sure IF someone has her they'll make sure she never see's pictures and news coverage etc.

But i just think it is highly unlikely she is alive now and it's a horrible thought to think of that little girl being no longer here but it could be fact.

Baby hun yes your right not all DNA can be eradicated completly.
But my point was with them being in the medical profession you would think they would have done a better clean up, like tasha said the visable evidence ect.
Anyway i cant say anything more, like you guys have stated we may never know the outcome.
The portugese police have now handed all the documentation the courts it in there hands now.:rolleyes:

yeah i agree as much as i hate saying it i think little maddie is dead i know that's awful to say but i think alot of people think the same thing. i'm just not so sure if her body will ever be found :(.

IF she has been abducted and is alive i still don't think she'll be found that poor like girls identity and everything will have been changed and the thing is as she grows up she'll never really know who she really was, she'll only know who she is due to who ever has her and that she was that missing little girl that the whole world were looking for, cause i'm sure IF someone has her they'll make sure she never see's pictures and news coverage etc.

But i just think it is highly unlikely she is alive now and it's a horrible thought to think of that little girl being no longer here but it could be fact.
Im feeling in my heart that she may be in heaven now but it reminds me of that case about 15 years or so ago, Ben Needham. Does anybody remember that? He went missing in cos and was never seen again, but his parents were never accused of any wrong doing. They still live in hope that he is alive..somewhere.

Im feeling in my heart that she may be in heaven now but it reminds me of that case about 15 years or so ago, Ben Needham. Does anybody remember that? He went missing in cos and was never seen again, but his parents were never accused of any wrong doing. They still live in hope that he is alive..somewhere.
Yes i remember him, he has been reported being seen all over europe, they even did photo likeness shots of him to see what he would look like 10,,, 20 yrs on ect.:sad:

I think they're both guilty. How is it possible for what the media have descirbed as a "Clump" of hair to show up in the car which they hired 25 days after Madeleine's dissappearance? There is the possibility or there being a few hairs or whatever which could have brushed off belongings, but a clump of hair? That obviously shows Madeleine has been present in the car.

The McCanns said when asked that Madeleine hadn't hurt herself on holiday, but there was blood belonging to her on the floor of their apartment. Also, that toy which Kate carries round which belongs to Madeleine was washed the day after she dissappeared. When your child goes missing the last thing you would do is wash the last toy they had before they went missing because it could contain evidence, the only reason to wash it would be if the evidence points to YOU, I think it probably did have evidence on.

Whatever the outcome of the this the parents are to blame, no one should ever leave any child home alone, yet they left all 3 of theirs alone in a foreign country. They didn't know the crime rate of the area, how safe/dangerous it was yet they thought they'd risk it and just leave them there. To me that says "We don't care". On TV they haven't even seemed that bothered either, if anything they've looked worried. Probably worried because the truth will eventually come out.

I heard that if the McCanns did have anything to do with Maddy's death it was accidental, due to overdosing. In which case, where did the blood come from? Why are clumps of hair suddenly all over the place?`

They didn't do it, I really don't think so. If they were weeping and wailing all over the place people would be saying they weren't fit to have their other kids, or that they were over-doing it. Because they are keeping composure, people are saying they are callous and guilty as hell. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Once the media have it in for you, ANYTHING you do will be exaggerated and a negative slant put on it.

Also, if the police are being so secretive, where are all these stories even coming from?

Oh dear me silent shout, i do hear you and i do see where your comeing from ok but please, lets wait untill we know if they are the culprits or not, it seems inhuman to hang them now before we know the score, and if they are innocent think about it they have lost a child ect cut them some slack for now yeah mate.

Now on to todays daily star headlines on maddies plight.
police are saying maddies toy cuddle cat, could hold vital clues to her fate.
they have launched an operation to seize the cuddly toy from mum kate mc cann.
As well as her personal diary and dad gerrys laptop.
Police claim the £9 99 pink toy could hold vital clues to the tots disapearance.
This is because police belive she was cradeling it when she died.
This colaberates, the death smell which sniffer dogs found on cuddle cat as well as on kates clothing.
Kate has never let the cuddle cat toy out of her sight, its been carried everywhere with her, even to rome to see the pope.
But once sniffer dogs detected the death smell on it she then washed the toy.
Also police have found bodily fluids with an 88 percent match to maddies dna in the hire cars boot.
Along with a clump of hair(I AGREE WITH SILENT SHOUT HERE, WHY A CLUMP OF HAIR MMM.
And the sniffer dogs traced the death smell from the hire car to the little church that kate mc cann used everyday.


Secrets revealed by the hair found in the mc canns hire car could hold the key to the maddie investigation
And tests on the tufts of hair may finally prove whether the parents had anything to do with her disapearance.
Putting the hair which portugease police belive is maddies, under the microscope, should reveal whether the four yr old was dead or alive when she was allegedly carried in the car.
Cells in the follicle the part of the skin which which produces hair strands would be a good source of profile material.
And if DNA found by forensic experts directly matches maddies, the chances of it comeing from somebody else is a billion to one.
Experts say that scientific advances mean that they can now tell if the hair has come from a live person,, a dead body or a newly killed body.
Hair starts to decompose rapidly after death.
The severe heat in portugal could have advanced the decomposition say biolagists.


I could go on with the police reports from the paper but i think this gives us an up to date version of events so far.
Im gutted to say that yes i do finally belive the poor kid is dead

Oh dear me silent shout, i do hear you and i do see where your comeing from ok but please, lets wait untill we know if they are the culprits or not, it seems inhuman to hang them now before we know the score, and if they are innocent think about it they have lost a child ect cut them some slack for now yeah mate.

I know it's "Innocent until proven guilty" but i find it really hard to believe they're innocent, all of the evidence seems to point to them. If it was anyone else there would be DNA from them in the apartment, which there isn't, also if it was some random killer/kidnapper, why stop at just the one child when there's 3 there? It's IMPOSSIBLE for there to be a clump of hair in their car 25 days after Madeleine went missing, her body would have had to have been present in the car for a clump to be there, and the only people who have been using the car have been the McCanns.

I would like to believe they're innocent and that Madeleine is still alive, but with all of the evidence pointing at them i can't help but believe they killed her, there just isn't any proof that anyone else could have done it.

I think they're both guilty. How is it possible for what the media have descirbed as a "Clump" of hair to show up in the car which they hired 25 days after Madeleine's dissappearance?

Carrying their missing daughter's belongings around... like a hairbrush?

Carrying their missing daughter's belongings around... like a hairbrush?

Could be true, but wouldn't it have been in a bag or something?

Cherry said that now we're waiting on results from the hair to tell us if she was dead or alive.
Surely, if she was being carried in the boot of the car, it would mean she was dead.


And Silent_Shout said all the evidence points to the McCanns being guilty.
Not at all true.

As I said in an earlier post, the 'death scent' only lasts for around a month. How on earth would the McCanns have been keeping their daughter hidden for 3 months, then have killed her in the last four weeks?
And why?!?!

Plus Kate and Gerry and their two-year-old twins would have often carried in the car items used by Madeleine. These items could easily certainly carry Madeleine’s hair and minute traces of skin, dried blood, saliva and vomit. The same could be said of the holiday apartments used by the McCanns and their friends in the Ocean Club resort. However, if the blood came from Madeleine’s corpse the only other highly unlikely explanation would be that a previous hirer had moved the body.

Carrying their missing daughter's belongings around... like a hairbrush?
Yes very agreeable ches, a hairbrush would give you clumps of hair, and me being a loving mother if my child had gone missing, id carry it hairs and all as it would be all i had left of my child.:cry:

I see now they want her diary and his laptop. Also have they have said that they might search the church which they had been given the keys for to use when they wanted.
Seems the police are after something.

After many hours in work talking about this it seems that lots of pepole think there seems a lack of emotion from both parents which I have to agree with

I like most of you hope she is alive and the parents have nothing to do with it!!!

Also think its about time the police showed there hand. If they have proof she is dead and the parents did it then they should move forward with that. If they think she is alive and the parents have nothing to do with it then lets get back for looking for her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the end of they day lets hope all of us want(press/public and parents)maddie to be alive safe and well..

Yes i agree, move in for an arrest or carry on with the search.
Time wasted sitting around doing nothing is a crying shame.
But four months on is there any stone they have left unturned or unsearched, or is this clutching at straws time.????????:rolleyes:

But four months on is there any stone they have left unturned or unsearched, or is this clutching at straws time.????????:rolleyes:

Does seem to be that way too

Ok now this saga becomes clearer.
The police now have, or so they say enough evidence to arrest kate mc cann for the murder of her child maddie, and gerry mc cann as well.
They say that the tests done on the bodily fluids found in the hire cars boot, showed that not only was maddie carried in the car, but it also showed that she was dosed up with sleeping like drugs before death.
They are now awaiting permission to search the church that kate went to every day, which in portugal is really unheard of cause to them the church is a holy place that is never normally disturbed by police, it goes against there laws.
They are searching the church because sniffer dog evidence has given them a picture of what they think took place, which is this.
Kate mc cann gave maddie and the two twins sleeping drugs so they could ensure they slept while they went out to enjoy the night life, it seems that maddie was given a leathal dose my mistake and to cover this up kate came up with the story of her being abducted.
She raised the alarm by shouting and telling people that they have taken her, weird thing to say but in fact its what she said.
Somehow in all this they took maddies body to the church and hid her there, knowing that it wouldent be searched.
They then waited for the right time to move maddie, before dumping her body in the sea.
The hair found in the boot was maddies, and it was to much hair to have been left there by a towel or anything conected to maddie.
If they find maddies DNA in the church, and tests show time of death ect then the mc canns will be charged with 1st degree murder.
They are also looking in to the possibility of drug testing the mc cann twins to see what drugs come up in there bodys.
All sounds to good to be true dosent it, all cut and dried but i still say why would a gp and a heart surgeon make a big mistake like overdoseing there own child, dosent add up to me whatsoever.
Lets see what tomorrows papers tell us.:cry:

Kate McCann 'to be quizzed again' Press Association
Friday September 14, 2007 7:03 AM
Portuguese police want to re-interview the mother of missing Madeleine McCann so they can ask her more than 40 questions she previously refused to answer, it has been reported.


Kate McCann remained silent when detectives initially put the questions to her in the presence of her lawyer, according to the Portuguese newspaper Publico.
Police also want fresh interviews with some of the friends on holiday in Portugal with her and her husband Gerry when Madeleine went missing, according to separate reports.


Mrs McCann's private diary documents her struggles to look after her "hysterical" children and reveals details about the night Madeleine went missing, it was reported.
The diary is among a number of personal items prosecutors want from the young girl's parents, sources close to the investigation said. Mrs McCann was frequently seen writing her journal in private moments after Madeleine went missing from the family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3.
Unconfirmed reports in Portuguese newspapers suggested that her journal portrays Mrs McCann as being worn out by Madeleine's "excess of activity".
She also complains her husband does not help with family chores, meaning that the burden of looking after their twins falls on her, according to the Correio da Manha. Although she does not confess to any crimes in the diary, it is considered "fundamental" to the investigation, the paper said.


A McCann family spokeswoman refused to confirm or deny any of the reports.


Intense attention has focused on what police found in the hire car rented by Madeleine's parents 25 days after she went missing. Senior sources linked to the investigation told Portuguese journalists that they discovered "bodily fluids" - not blood - with an 88% match to Madeleine's genetic profile in the boot.
Toxicological tests on the liquid show that Madeleine had consumed a "significant" quantity of sleeping tablets and may have overdosed, the French newspaper France Soir reported, citing unnamed sources in Portugal.


Copyright (c) Press Association Ltd. 2007, All Rights Reserved.
http://www.guardian.co.uk

I read the above article with a certain amount of concern. It seems littered with conjecture regarding evidence. All of the 'news' reported here seems to be from other newspapers and the 'senior sources linked the investigation' are a disgrace to their badges if they are leaking information to the press. I wonder if they would be paid for it? All this publicity is doing the case no good at all. If, God forbid, little Maddie lost her life at the hands of her parents any judge in the world would question the ability of officers to investigate correctly during the media circus which has now become the McCann case.

There is nothing in the above article I would consider concrete other than the family spokeswoman refusing to confirm or deny allegations. There is no solid evidence here or in any other newspaper. As has already been said in this thread, the police should charge the family or leave them alone. Until there is real evidence it's just words.

Is there a woman on this earth who, when realising her daughter had overdosed on something, would immediately come up with a cover story and a place to hide the body, rather than shouting for help and calling an ambulance? Unless she was killed on purpose, I just don't see how her reaction could be true.

The McCann case is all in our minds

Viv Groskop

Published 13 September 2007


Now the idea that "the parents might have done it" has been officially introduced, the speculation has gone stratospheric
So the McCanns have returned home. And what a homecoming. It was never going to be a pleasant experience for them, nor even a barely tolerable one, but the global media mob surrounding them last weekend seemed excessive by any standards. At the time of writing, the public prosecutor in Portugal was deciding whether charges should be brought against them.


It would be foolish for anyone not in possession of the same documents as the public prosecutor to make any assumptions about this case. All anyone else can really say is that, as yet, there is no hard evidence in the public domain. But that's not very satisfying, is it? Crucially, it's not news, in a highly emotive case where news, any news, is all any one wants.
So instead, the case has become a story about a story, where known facts - of which there are few (or, rather, none, save the unexplained disappearance of a child) - are not being allowed to get in the way of the theories, of which there are thousands, voiced by any amateur detective you care to meet.


From the outset, and while this case simply remained "every parent's worst nightmare", widespread theorising was always inevitable. Now the idea that "the parents might have done it" has been officially introduced, the speculation has gone stratospheric.
One of the oddest things about it is the strength of opinion from onlookers in the face of next to no evidence. It is possible to meet many people at the moment who claim to "know" the truth about what happened (whether sympathetic to the McCanns or not) - and to have "known" it from the beginning. They stick to their story irrespective of anything reported in the media, only choosing to believe reports that confirm what their initial instincts already told them. There is almost a sense that any real conclusion might be disappointing: they may still hope for the best or fear the worst, but really they just don't want to know that they guessed wrong.


This is rather depressing - actually, it's very depressing - but the desire to construct a narrative is entirely natural and one of the strongest impulses of the human condition. Even more desperate than the desire for a story, we want a satisfying conclusion: we want to know the "truth" about what happened. When the truth is not forthcoming - or is heavily delayed - we can't stand it. We impose our own narrative, which once it is repeated often enough becomes the story in itself.


This is what has happened with the McCanns. And in the absence of any real truth, the situation that has emerged tells us more about ourselves than anything we think we know about the case. While no real evidence that Madeleine is alive or dead has been made public, we must make do with the unsatisfactory state of not knowing. The human mind, however, craves resolution. And so as time goes on, everyone sees in the story and its protagonists exactly what they want to see. Everyone draws their own conclusion and believes it.


It is pointless and naive to blame people for being interested. It's even more wrong-headed to pretend, as many have protested, that people have lost interest. They haven't. (If you're one of the few who has, then why have you read this far?) The fact is, even if and when the mystery is solved, people will always be fascinated. Whether there are any real developments or real evidence is increasingly irrelevant: the story now has its own momentum in people's minds, independent of factual events.
The international scale of the case is a sign that this is not a British problem. As the possible imaginary scenarios multiply and the likelihood of new evidence shrinks, the case is taking on the qualities of an elaborately plotted novel. For the McCanns the secondary plot - the campaign, the accusations, the trial by media - threatens to overshadow the real story - Madeleine's disappearance. Or maybe it's too late and this has already happened.


This month's opening of the film version of Ian McEwan's novel Atonement should serve as a timely warning. This is another story about a story. It's about what happens when evidence takes second place to instinct and assumption. Two small children go missing - an event which clouds everyone's judgement. A girl imagines she has witnessed a crime and constructs the facts she needs. The innocent are convicted, the guilty walk free, lives are ruined.


Atonement is a mesmerising morality tale about the all-too-human desire to impose a narrative before all the facts are known. It succeeds as a fiction because it has the ring of truth. In real life, however, we need to look beyond the story and wait patiently for the facts. In the case of Madeleine McCann - unless she can suddenly be found, dead or alive - this may take a very long time indeed.


An excellent article from Viv Groskrop published by the New Statesman.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200709130024

They are searching the church because sniffer dog evidence has given them a picture of what they think took place, which is this.
Kate mc cann gave maddie and the two twins sleeping drugs so they could ensure they slept while they went out to enjoy the night life, it seems that maddie was given a leathal dose my mistake and to cover this up kate came up with the story of her being abducted.
She raised the alarm by shouting and telling people that they have taken her, weird thing to say but in fact its what she said.
Somehow in all this they took maddies body to the church and hid her there, knowing that it wouldent be searched.
They then waited for the right time to move maddie, before dumping her body in the sea.

A couple of things..
How on earth can you possibly get all that from a sniffer dog?
Sure they can take the police to wherever they can pick up a scent, but they can tell that she was given an overdose? Where did that suggestion even come from in the first place?

And come on.. this doesn't fit together at all:

Kate gave them sleeping pills or something before they went out for a meal. Surely she'd have realised at that point if she'd given her an overdose.
At 10-ish she cries out 'They've taken her!' Who said that's what she actually said, by the way? Surely there can't have been a witness to that?!

WHEN would she have taken a body to the church? And how, without anyone noticing? How the hell do you take a body and hide it in a church without attracting any attention at all?
Although thinking about it, isn't there like.. one witness report saying they saw someone leaving the apartment with a child? If this is true then would it have been Kate they saw?!

Furthermore how did she get her to the church? Did they have a car at the beginning of the holiday? If they had done, then surely, surely the police aren't so stupid as to have not done any checks on that car.

If they didn't have a car at that point, then what, she carried the body to the church?
What?

Is there a woman on this earth who, when realising her daughter had overdosed on something, would immediately come up with a cover story and a place to hide the body, rather than shouting for help and calling an ambulance? Unless she was killed on purpose, I just don't see how her reaction could be true.
I completely agree.



I'm not saying either way if I believe the McCanns. The evidence is all too contradictory. But I believe we will never know exactly what happened, until such time as (and if) someone confesses.

And although I agree with what Vik said, maybe it's possible that in the shock of realising she may have killed her daughter, Kate tried to cover it up so that she could blame someone else for the disappearance.
Once the story got media attention, I imagine it would have been impossible for her to turn round and say "No, I did it."

People say that if it was them, they'll be the most hated people on the planet.
I'm not so sure I agree.
Of course there will be people who criticise. Of course there will. But imagine how terrible Kate must feel if it's true. Knowing that you were responsible for your child's death must be impossible to live with.
If it turns out that Kate is guilty, I think there may be a lot of sympathy for her too - although perhaps kept quiet and away from the media.


-----

Edit:
Have just seem Lumiere's post.
Wow. That article does make you think.
And I completely agree with it.
By this point, it's just become a scandalous story, and like the article said, very much like a novel, where people just want to know what happened now. The introduction of the theory that the McCanns are to blame will have brought in much more interest.

Many people will have lost sight of what's important here - a young girl has gone missing, possibly been killed, and regardless or not of whether the parents were involved (if they were, then surely it was accidental), it must be absolute hell to have to live this.
We're probably guilty of spending too much time wondering who to blame, when in fact all that matters is finding Madeleine, if it's possible, and if not, then finding out the truth.

I was going to put a link here to the video that appeared on the findmadeleine website, but oddly, the video is no longer there. It was the one that appeared at the top of the website, and it was such an emotional clip. There is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEuQn5rWPa0) one, but it's not the same one and in my opinion doesn't have nearly as much of an emotional effect as the other video did.

But still, maybe it'll remind us of what's important here. At first this was a heartbreaking, emotional story about a missing child. Now it's a scandal, with being placing blame left, right and centre without any solid evidence.


I'm still praying for Maddie's safe return home, however unlikely it seems that it will happen.


-----

Second edit:
Searching YouTube just now, I came across this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8gnaF4qg4&mode=related&search=) video.
I'm not sure what to make of it.
I think the idea in itself is not a bad one, and was probably made with the good intention of getting people to see the heart of the story: Find the missing child. But something about it just seems wrong to me.
The second half of it, however, is much more emotional, similar to the video that was previously on the findmadeleine website.

Also, see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F00REeJatc&NR=1) video.

Tasha my earlier post was taken straight from todays papers, if anything isnt agreeable its them not me lol.
Ok how much evidence did they get from sniffer dogs, the sniffer dog that was used has cracked a few big top priority cases in the past, so its a very good sniffer dog well trained ect.
The dog was walked around the area where maddie went missing and it took the trail from the apartment to the church, which dident need a car to reach it as it is right opposite the mac canns apartment block.
The dog also sniffed a trail from the car back to the church, so there was definate clues to go on there.
All the evidence given today to the portugal courts all seems in order, there is not one thing that looks out of place it all fits all we have to do now is wait to see if in fact she was in the church and to see if all the evidence then fits.
I dont think the mc canns killed maddie, but the evidence looks very damming to say the least.:cry:
Also tasha, the police dogs dident give any indication of maddie being drugged up, that came from DNA samples of body fluids taken from the hire car which has been proved to be maddies bodily fluids, nothing to do with the dogs.
For the most part tasha i agree with your verdict of events hun, i dont want to belive kate or gerry mc cann did this, its to shocking to be true.
But if it was them done accidently, then yes the longer you keep it quiet the harder it is to come clean id say, lets keep praying for a miricle here hey guys.

Tasha my earlier post was taken straight from todays papers, if anything isnt agreeable its them not me lol.

I'm aware of that - sorry, I didn't mean it to seem I was picking at anything you were saying.

Also - I didn't realise the stuff about the drugs came from the DNA testing. The way it was phrased it just sounded like the dogs had somehow figured all this out and managed to convey it to the police. Oh yeah, and the fact that the church was opposite the apartment block, I wasn't aware of that either, thanks for clearing that up.

However.. if the apartment was right opposite the church.... why did no-one search there to start with?
So much for thorough checks of the surrounding areas.

Tasha babe i wasent offended by your post hun, not at all.
Im glad that you see what i meant by the DNA now sorry if i worded it wrongly.
And i think the police only needed to search the church after all this evidence come to light.
There was no leads to the church untill all this new evidence cropped up, also like i said earlier churches over there are very strict on invasion by police ect, they are getting special licence to search it now as we speak.
Thats why it wasent searched beforhand babe.
Anyway lets keep updateing this thread day by day, its very conpelling reading some very clear views on this thread, that im enjoying, although the subject isnt enjoyable the banter is.
Tasha those videos you posted are so lovely they touched my heart hun, isnt maddie a beautifal little soul.

The family of Madeleine McCann are to launch an advertising campaign to help find the missing four-year-old, it has been announced.

Up to £80,000 will be drawn from the fighting fund set up to search for the Leicestershire youngster and spent on newspaper, television and billboard adverts.

Made formal suspects in the disappearance of their daughter, Gerry and Kate McCann are keen to keep the focus on finding her.

The campaign, set to launch in two weeks, was announced at a media conference in their home village of Rothley.

In a statement issued through a spokeswoman for the family, Mr McCann's brother and fund director, John McCann, said: "On behalf of the extended McCann family and the Madeleine fund, I would just like to say how grateful we are for people's generosity and support.

"The main objective of the Madeleine fund is to leave no stone unturned in the search for Madeleine.

"To that end, I would like to announce that the fund will finance a broad range of initiatives in advertising to remind everyone that Madeleine is still missing."

Mr McCann said the adverts would focus on Spain, Portugal and other parts of Europe and would consist of billboards and other media.

He added: "This financing of advertisements will complement previous efforts by the fund and many motivated individuals - family, friends and people touched by our cause.

"I hope that the general public will continue to support us in this. It is so important that we remember - 'don't you forget about me', our lovely wee Madeleine."


I was looking at the headines in the papers this morning, and they said that police do not have enough evidence to charge the McCanns.

Reading todays news of the world, while quietly fishing with mr cherry, i read this.
A tv producer is today revealed as the shock key witness in the madelaine mc cann mystery.
Jeremy wilkins evidence bloes holes in the police theory that mr and mrs mc cann are involved in there daughters disapearance.
Mr wilkins was the man that says he spoke to gerry mc cann for up to 15 minutes on the night she went missing outside the holiday apartments after gerry claims he checked on the sleeping children.
Now what he says is a key piece of evidence for the portugal police. (what took him so long to come forward, 4 months plus FFS.)
He states that he is entirely convinced that neither gerry or kate mc cann have anything to do with maddies disapearance.
He also says that jane tanner, the women who says she saw a man carrying a child in a blanket on the night maddie went missing is completly wrong about what she saw or she is lying.
He says the alleyway where he and gerry spoke for 15 minutes is very narrow, he would have noticed a man with a child walking past, the narrowness would mean that he would have had to have moved to let him past.
But mrs tanner is sticking to her guns, she says i saw gerry and mr wilkins speaking while i went to check on my kids, i said hi to them and asked if they wanted more wine ordered at the tapas bar, after id spoken to them i saw a man with a child in a blanket walking past them in the alley.
Mr wilkins says in return that well he was either blinded for a few minutes or mrs tanner is lying or confussed as her version did not happen, he goes further snidely saying what is she hideing herself then.
Well forumites yet another media frenzy in this case, every day there seems to be a little more evidence or a little more information in the papers, i find this all weird, 24 hours seems to bring more talk in to the equation.
Lets hope its ended soon.:cry:

Kate and Gerry McCann prayed for their daughter Madeleine at their local church for the first time since returning from Portugal.

The couple held hands as they walked the short distance from their home to The Catholic Church of the Sacred Heart in Rothley for mass, more than a week after they were named formal suspects or "arguidos" by the Portuguese police investigating their four-year-old daughter's disappearance.

In a statement released after the hour-long service, Mr McCann thanked friends for their support and said attending mass had been a comfort to them both.

He said: "It was comforting to be amongst friends and family praying for Madeleine today. We thank them for their continued support."

Worshippers, who arrived at the church to a huge pack of British and foreign journalists, said special prayers, including a bidding and a rosary prayer, for Madeleine during the service.
Wow, they really will report on anything now.

Cherry that's interesting what you posted - I read a 2 page article in the Times this morning which didn't mention any of that!


Something I thought of this morning, was that a lot of people (I don't mean on here - in general) have been saying "The McCanns have been showing a surprisingly small amount of emotion." Er..what?
Doesn't anyone think that had it actually been their fault, they'd be upset anyway?
Knowing that you'd accidentally killed your child.. wouldn't that tear you apart?
They are in such an awful situation, whether they were responsible or not. Either they killed their child, or their child is missing and has been for over four months. Horrific situation to be in, whichever one it is.
Isn't it possible that they've just been good at keeping it together when they're in front of the press?

Wow, they really will report on anything now.

Cherry that's interesting what you posted - I read a 2 page article in the Times this morning which didn't mention any of that!


Something I thought of this morning, was that a lot of people (I don't mean on here - in general) have been saying "The McCanns have been showing a surprisingly small amount of emotion." Er..what?
Doesn't anyone think that had it actually been their fault, they'd be upset anyway?
Knowing that you'd accidentally killed your child.. wouldn't that tear you apart?
They are in such an awful situation, whether they were responsible or not. Either they killed their child, or their child is missing and has been for over four months. Horrific situation to be in, whichever one it is.
Isn't it possible that they've just been good at keeping it together when they're in front of the press?
Right on tasha yes if they did in fact kill maddie by accident, of course that would have ripped them to shreads, heartbroken wouldent cover it at all.
And tasha i dont know where you are from sweetie, if your in the uk get todays news of the world, if not can you get todays edition of the news of the world up on the net, to read todays front page maddie story.
I posted what i read on here not word for word but mostly to detail of what was said.
But yes i do strongly agree that people show emotions in many different ways can we all cry in anguise in front of the worlds press, i dont think so.

ive just seen on the channel 5 news that Richard Branson is funding the McCanns legal fee's!!!

Y es richard branson had given them 100,000 for there legal fee,s, he is also drumming up other bussiness men to donate funds as well.
He wants to give them in all from himself and other people 1 million pounds.
What a guy eh.

From the start I have said they were guilty. Maybe that's just my gut instinct kicking in. Obviously without a body the case is stuffed - just like the Azaria Chamberlain case in the 80's where Lindy Chamberlain uttered those famous words "That Dingo's Got My Baby!"

Lindy Chamberlain was jailed and eventually acquitted - but the husband Michael was a smarmy bastard like the McCann bloke and he stayed well out of the light and never did any time at all.

If this were a couple on benefits and weren't wealthy medical types do you think the community would have supported them so vigorously? I hardly think so. They would have been pilloried from the get go.

They have money and are using it to taint the case by this advertising campaign they are trying to launch and by mentioning a strange unknown woman.

Seen it all before.

Guilty - but the courts will let them off as there is insufficient evidence and possibly technical "reasonable doubt".

ive just seen on the channel 5 news that Richard Branson is funding the McCanns legal fee's!!!
No offense, but could he at least sort out his poor internet connection problem? :rolleyes:

I wonder how he'd feel if he supported the parents and then found out they really were guilty (not that I'm saying they are, but it is a possibility)

A part of me thinks that maybe her death was an accident and the parents did try to cover it up. Whether or not that did happen, at the end of the day they left their three kids, all under the age of 4, alone in a foreign country.

If social services or whoever were to find out that anyone here did that in their own homes, they'd be done for it. I don't know what would happen to them, but surely the McCanns should receive the same treatment. Who on earth would be stupid enough to leave their kids home alone?! That thing on it's own makes me mad. Most of you are mothers, I don't think you'd even leave your 10 year olds at home alone. I know I wouldn't.

yeah i agree AJ they should get the same treatment, as you said if anyone done that in their own homes the kids would be taken off them and put into care and the more and more this goes on the more i think those little twins should be at least away from all this, whether it be with a family member or even in care cause at the end of the day no matter what, the McCanns done wrong by leaving them alone in the first place. Damn right i wouldn't leave my little girl at home even if she was 14/15 she's still legally to young to be left home alone at that age. Therefore she's not legally able to stay at home alone till she's 16 and to me i won't be leaving her alone till then. That's a personal choice though.

Baby you can in fact leave a child home alone from the age of 14 hun, unless its different in scotland darling.
Although it would depend on the child in question wouldent it, me personally i could safely leave my mellisa alone for the night shes 15 and very capable.
Anyway im going off topic here, AJ omg mentioning the virgin internet connection i know you meant nothing by it really but poor taste especially on this topic, but dont worry we wont shoot you at dawn.
BM i know this is work for you isnt it, so im kinda with you on your opinion here.
You have worked with these sorts of things before as you said you have seen it all before.
Im so hopeing this is the one time your wrong hun, can you imagine the fallout if it was the parents, jesus they would have to move to the moon for peace, and the little twins lives would be a travesty after finding out those details while growing up surely.

I wonder how he'd feel if he supported the parents and then found out they really were guilty (not that I'm saying they are, but it is a possibility)
Yeah - it wouldn't be good. However.. don't think it's going to happen. Sure, they could be charged and acquitted but it still wouldn't prove anything. Unless we get a confession, we'll never know for sure what happened.

If social services or whoever were to find out that anyone here did that in their own homes, they'd be done for it. I don't know what would happen to them, but surely the McCanns should receive the same treatment. Who on earth would be stupid enough to leave their kids home alone?! That thing on it's own makes me mad. Most of you are mothers, I don't think you'd even leave your 10 year olds at home alone. I know I wouldn't.
There was something about if they'd been Portuguese, they'd have been arrested anyway for neglecting their children. But seeing as they were English, they couldn't be. But that makes it odd that the English social services didn't do anything about it.. if they were in England surely they would have had something to say about it.
So does that mean that if you want to leave your kids at home without being charged, you just do it in another country, where neither of them can do anything about it? :rolleyes:

yeah i agree AJ they should get the same treatment, as you said if anyone done that in their own homes the kids would be taken off them and put into care and the more and more this goes on the more i think those little twins should be at least away from all this, whether it be with a family member or even in care cause at the end of the day no matter what, the McCanns done wrong by leaving them alone in the first place. Damn right i wouldn't leave my little girl at home even if she was 14/15 she's still legally to young to be left home alone at that age. Therefore she's not legally able to stay at home alone till she's 16 and to me i won't be leaving her alone till then. That's a personal choice though.
Not a personal dig at you or anyone else, but it's not going to do any good saying how it was irresponsible of the McCanns. They'll have been beating themselves up about that right from Day 1.

And slightly off topic - about the age thing that you & cherry mentioned.. I don't think there actually is a legal age for it. I went to a babysitting course where we were told there's no legal age from which you can babysit, but most people don't under 13.
I was left alone for (very short) periods of time from when I was 10 or 11. I guess it just depends on when the parents feel the kids are responsible enough to be left alone, and how long for.

Obviously though if the children are all under 4, that's taking it too far.


Im so hopeing this is the one time your wrong hun, can you imagine the fallout if it was the parents, jesus they would have to move to the moon for peace, and the little twins lives would be a travesty after finding out those details while growing up surely.
Although... if the parents went to jail for it, who would the twins look after it? Other family or foster care? Maybe they wouldn't be told about it.. even given a new identity or something to cover up them ever finding it out.

Or maybe that's a little too much. =/

There have been a lot of terrible things said in this thread that go way beyond poor taste and not said by AJ :sad:

/me awards BB a clamarous applause.

And just so this isn't classed as spam, let's just take a minute to remember all the other children who have gone missing but don't get the attention and/or investment like this case has received.

-Edit- Apologies if someone else has already mentioned all the other missing children, I haven't actually read through all of the previous posts.

No need to apologise Fy, we should remember all the other little children who are missing, unfortunately not everyone can appeal for their children as much as the McCanns. But let's hope that they're all reunited with their families.

Far too many children go missing and believe it or not it does affect little kids as well. I was watching a home makeover show last Saturday with my nieces and nephews who are aged 8 and below. They did an appeal for missing children and my nieces and nephews were counting the kids' faces each time they showed a new child. They got as far as counting 8 missing children and they looked as if they wanted to be sick :sad:
I can honestly say I've never seen them that upset or shocked before.

I apologise in case anyone really has taken offense to my little comment earlier. It's good to hear that Richard Branson is supporting the McCanns, I think any parent of a missing child would appreciate it but I just hope that the McCanns are not guilty of anything (other than leaving their kids alone)

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=usMapSearch&missState=AZ&searchLang=en_US

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9615369/site/newsweek/

More than 2000 children missing....

There have been a lot of terrible things said in this thread that go way beyond poor taste and not said by AJ :sad:
Ok hold the front page, before you all go off on one thinking i was attacking poor AJ, I WASENT
I merely had my say, no aj you dident offend me in the slightest i said what i did cause this case has been close to my heart for a very personal reason.
So by likening richard bransons internet service to a missing child although dident offend me i still said what i did just cause i felt i needed to.
We all have our say here and opinions.
I said it in a nice way as not to offend as mods on here have told us ALL not to flame any situations whatsoever.
Which i dident want to do anyway, we do seem to have a lot of people jumping on posts these days for no good reason WHY.
If we are not meant to answer people posts and opinions then why have a forum in the first place.
Please people take what i said as it was intended which was to have a say on something that touched a cord with me and my family, as you have said on here other children have indeed gone missing, yes my family have had that first hand so we know how it feels( not my direct family but close enough).
Aj did nothing wrong in what she said in her post and neither did i we both had our freedom of speech thats it, i answerd aj with what i thought and BB has posted after me with her thoughts.
All fair play, but please please please see my post for what it was.

Cherry, seriously no worries man. I know you weren't having a go, it's all good :)
However, just in case others, e.g guests who do not post here or even forum members who do not reply to these posts were offended, I just apologised as it would be the best thing to do.

Also, thank you Lumiére for providing those links, they're a real eye opener.
I hope all those missing children are found and for those who aren't I hope they weren't made to suffer :sad:

Its ok AJ thanks hun.
I know your not the type to want to hurt anyone your post was done nicely i only said something really cause it seemed very slightly close to my heart, not because you did anything wrong or bad, i know you to be a good person hun.

Sorry about this guy's, I can do the multiple quote function just cant grasp how to not use all of what was said.

I know I don't post on her quite regularly like all of you, but I read the posts everyday, especially the ones on this topic.

My opinion is, it wouldn't have mattered if they were on British soil, and left their kids alone the way they did on holidays. They have high powered jobs so WHY would Social Services step in ? This mainly falls on poor families, who are doing there best to survive and are always being picked on by social services. To the extend that these working class families, have done nothing wrong ( don't get me wrong here ) I'm not saying that some of the working class families DO NOT neglect or abuse their kids. It just seems to be that way, if you all catch me drift. I have read sooooooo many stories of people with good jobs that YOU would NEVER believe they could abuse, neglect their kids. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but like Cherry said this thread is for freedom of speech.

My opinion is, it wouldn't have mattered if they were on British soil, and left their kids alone the way they did on holidays. They have high powered jobs so WHY would Social Services step in ? This mainly falls on poor families, who are doing there best to survive and are always being picked on by social services. To the extend that these working class families, have done nothing wrong ( don't get me wrong here ) I'm not saying that some of the working class families DO NOT neglect or abuse their kids. It just seems to be that way, if you all catch me drift. I have read sooooooo many stories of people with good jobs that YOU would NEVER believe they could abuse, neglect their kids. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but like Cherry said this thread is for freedom of speech.

My point is similar. It really is all about money. Only in this case Social Services stepping in is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted - although I see that all too often over here.

Although there are a certain number of crimes that are covered internationally - such as murder and child sex expoitation - I don't actually think that parental neglect of a child is covered in such a forum. Which is a shame really. Funny how when they first got mentioned they were never coming back home unless they found her - then when the Portuguese cops start to look at them, they can't get ona plane fast enough???

If you run you must be hiding something.

I always say don't make me chase you because I will catch you and you won't like it when I do.

/me feels the need to put in her two cents at this point.
Unfortunately, last year at this time I was under investigation by child services before Bebe was diagnosed with gastric reflux. She had been constantly throwing up to the point she'd choke on it and turn blue. After bringing her to the emergency room at four days old, I was told I was suspected of choking her. She was held in the pediatric ICU under observation until someone from ACS came to our home to evaluate if we were taking proper care of her. She walked in, had a look around at my beautiful home with the gorgeous painted nursery and closets full of clothing and toys and asked in awe:"They sent me HERE?!". And that's when I took offense.
The whole time Bebe was being held in the hospital (with me by her side since I nursed her) I understood. Obviously in my case they were overzealous to suspect me in the first place but I understood what was going on and realized that yes, they're being overly cautious, but that's their job. They watch out for the children's sake when parents are neglectful and hurtful. And of course, after she was diagnosed with GERD and then allergies, my case was dropped.
What bothers me about this whole thing is, yes they have good jobs and are obviously well educated people. But where was this so called high class education when they were wondering if it's ok to leave their children BY THEMSELVES in a FOREIGN COUNTRY? The only time it was okay for me to get offended during my investigation was when the social worker saw the materialistic things my daughter has and based her safety on that. I'm not sure if I make much sense, I feel very emotional about all this and some of it doesn't come out properly. But if the McCanns were obviously neglectful recently, then to me it seems they should definitely be supervised by England's child services for the sake of the twins.

* aerochick;But if the McCanns were obviously neglectful recently, then to me it seems they should definitely be supervised by England's child services for the sake of the twins.

As reading these posts, it seems that it has opened up a few wounds for others to contemplate over. It also seems its always ppl like yourself Aero that were totally blamed in the wrong, but it also goes to show you can give your child loads of material things, have the most lovely home out. Does that mean that if you have these things, you are not capable of abuse/neglect ? I know I'm reiterating what I have already stated, but it is true the majority of people that get looked into by social services is working class ( that might just be UK ) and also some of the cases of kids being abused/neglected or even killed Social Services have been called out to investigate these claims, see they have a lovely home etc... and just brush it under the carpet.

/me would like to say sorry, its just I find it easier talking, than putting it into words

/me asks all of us to light a candle tonight for ALL the missing children and ALL the abused and neglected children.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u290/BlackL0dge/candle24bo.gif

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/TEDDY_000_photos/loveandlightcandle.gif

Aero i hear you completly hun.
Material things dosent equal a safe home not in the least.
Ive met people who live in run down council flats living on benefits, with damp walls in the homes and not much furniture or comforts, but the children was well fed loved in abundance and safe.
It reminds me of an old addage i once read.
A rich man gives a tramp a gold soverein as he is in dire need, then a poor man gives the same tramp his last penny.
What is worth more.
The penny of course.

Well said Cherry...

Hear hear Cherry and aero

The only reason I go on about abuse and neglect, was because when me and my sis were younger my dad was in prison. My mum never had much money, and we had the best child hood going. She gave to us and she did without. Many a night she sat without a meal, so as we could eat. Social services were always checking up on us. I often wonder is this because my dad was in jail, or because we didn't have the material things that all our other friends had ? at the end of the day I would rather have my mothers love, than all those other things, and I knew how much my mum loved us, and how much she had given up for us

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9986/newsou8.jpg

That all sounds realistic dosent it, those poor mc cann parents.
Bless them.

The case against the McCanns is being reviewed by investigating judge Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias, who was handed the police file on Sept 11.

He has until tomorrow to respond to requests made by the public prosecutor, which could include further searches, permission to phone tap the McCanns or change their bail conditions.
So maybe tomorrow we'll hear more news about what the final verdict on the McCanns might be.


I was thinking about how the rumours are that Madeleine was given a sedative overdose. The McCanns deny ever giving their children sedatives, but the reports would suggest that they gave all of them sedatives that night so they wouldn't wake up.

If they think they can tell from the DNA in the car that Madeleine was given sedatives, then why don't they just test DNA from the twins to see if they've ever been given any?

So maybe tomorrow we'll hear more news about what the final verdict on the McCanns might be.


I was thinking about how the rumours are that Madeleine was given a sedative overdose. The McCanns deny ever giving their children sedatives, but the reports would suggest that they gave all of them sedatives that night so they wouldn't wake up.

If they think they can tell from the DNA in the car that Madeleine was given sedatives, then why don't they just test DNA from the twins to see if they've ever been given any?
Thats what i thought tasha, it would be the sensible thing to do you would think, as drugs stay in the human body for quiet a while so they could find traces i think.
The only downfall with that is makeing the twins go through a blood test and upset them further than this whole tragedy has done already, although i suppose they are young enough to get over it.

The only downfall with that is makeing the twins go through a blood test and upset them further than this whole tragedy has done already, although i suppose they are young enough to get over it.

Although surely if it would prove the McCanns' guilt or innocence, it's a pretty obvious solution. :rolleyes:

It's far too late to be testing the twins now. Any sedative would leave the system within 2 weeks tops. Plus, to be honest, it's not a sure fire way to know either. What if Maddie was a light sleeper and they only gave her some because the twins sleep really well?

With regards to the DNA, I've read that the children are IVF and since they said that the DNA matched 88% to Maddies, I've got a feeling that will muddy the waters as I'm not sure they have a 100% of Maddies DNA to compare it with. Having said that, they could've gotten it from her toothbrush or something so it's not impossible. I think the DNA in the car was from the twins.

Is it just me who thinks the photo of Kate and the twins looks shopped? The twin nearest the front of the picture looks like it's been pasted there.

Just another media manipulation of this awful case I guess :(

Is it just me who thinks the photo of Kate and the twins looks shopped? The twin nearest the front of the picture looks like it's been pasted there.

Just another media manipulation of this awful case I guess :(
I see what you mean.. but it seems a bit pointless. Wouldn't it have made more of a story if they could somehow make it look like she was splitting the twins up, or had left one alone or something?
Plus they could have easily got some other picture of them all together.

This (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/exclusions/madeleine/nosplit/timeline1.xml) page has a timeline of everything that's happened so far, if you're interested.

One thing that jumped out at me was
September 20
The McCanns fear that their mobile telephones have been bugged by Portuguese police when they were in the Algarve and since they returned to Britain.
They "fear" it?
Makes it sound sort of like they have something to hide.

/me thanks God that there are a few people in the world that still fight to uphold the principles that our justice system is founded on including innocent until proven guilty

The hysteria and lynch mob mentality that seems to be surrounding this case quite frankly makes me feel sick to my stomach.

As I've said before the only thing any us us knows for certain is that we don't know what's happened. I just hope that anyone who judges such a serious matter based on what people earn and do for a living is never called for jury duty.

Here here BB the voice of utmost sense and truth.
We the public know nothing the press know nothing the police know nothing, or arrests would have been made or maddie may have been found by now.
Im with BB lets watch the details unfold (if they in fact ever do) and see whats happens in the end if there is ever an end.
Thats the terrible truth isnt it what if the parents never know where there angel went.

Let's also say that anyone who actually serves on a jury is quite probably too bloody stupid to get out of doing jury duty.

There are too many times where criminals get locked up by cops - yet let off on some minor bull♥♥♥♥ technical aspect loophole - or where magistrates are so far out of touch with the needs and norms of modern society, that they let criminals off with a slap on the wrist.

Having said that - the continuity issues and inter agency dealings with this investigation may ultimately lead to failure. Try googling "Lindy Chamberlain Court Case" and see what you get in respect of trial by media etc.

Or have a look at this article:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22385670-661,00.html

This isn't a court of law, it's a simple forum. Everyone should be allowed their say here. People should also be allowed their say on THAT say. Such is the negativity of freedom of speech, something of which there is precious little at times but is often abused by the corrupt. Seems the world can't win. A court of law provides facts or something close to them whereas the media presents conjecture. What other result could you have from conjecture but conjecture?

Bad_MaNneR$'s link is fascinating in this respect.

Let's also say that anyone who actually serves on a jury is quite probably too bloody stupid to get out of doing jury duty.


Feel free to call me bloody stupid if you like but if I ever get called for jury duty I'll certainly do my utmost to listen to all the evidence presented and ensure that justice is done. I would probably not enjoy the experience but it is a duty and as such I would take it very seriously. I know nothing about the judicial system in Australia but I'm guessing it's not that far removed from the British system as so many are around the world. If you are someone who would try to get out of doing jury duty I can only wish you the best of luck as someone who obviously feels such contempt for the system is probably best left out of it.

Let's also say that anyone who actually serves on a jury is quite probably too bloody stupid to get out of doing jury duty.


Hey, I take offense to that. I have been called up several time for local duty and district court. A few years ago they wouldn't even accept the excuse that I would be traveling out of the country on a pre-planned trip as an excuse.

Even my brother, who is one of the smartest people I have ever known, was on jury duty for three weeks a few years ago for a civil trial. To get out of jury duty here in the US, you better be nearly dead or a student.. those are the only excuses that fly.

Jurors aren't stupid, just citizens doing their country a service for being granted a voice in the democratic process. But, I guess that is the government teacher coming out in my words and actions.

And sorry for the BIG off-topic here. I feel bad for everyone involved in the Maddie Case.. reminds me of the Jon-Benet Ramsey case from Colorado about a decade ago.

It might be wrong to accuse the parents of harming maddy, we don't know and might never know what happened. However, we do know for a fact that they left their young children alone in a hotel room in a foreign country while they went out to dinner and for that I'd like to see justice served. Sorry if I seem coldhearted but I'm in shock that child services hasn't stepped in for what I feel is neglect. Yes, they probably didn't harm Maddy and they're suffering a lot with their loss right now, but their loss is nothing compared to what a little 4 year old girl has gone through or is going through due to their carelessness.
And I applaud BB wholeheartedly for her determination to do the right thing and step up for her turn at jury duty, because I live in NY and I don't know anyone, myself included, who wouldn't try their hardest to get out of it.:embarrassed:

*
The hysteria and lynch mob mentality that seems to be surrounding this case quite frankly makes me feel sick to my stomach.



This case has dominated the news since Madeline disappeared because her parents fought to keep the case in the public eye. We, the public have been manipulated firstly by the McCanns to keep the spotlight on their daughter's disappearence and therefore find her and then by the press in the name of news.

The McCanns may have sought publicity for the right reasons but they are now facing the backlash. I think it's wrong to criticise the mob for having and voicing opinions when we have been exposed and therefore involved in so much publicity and information. Of course we are going to speculate on who is responsible. Are we meant to just ooh and aah and never form an opinion of our own? Or maybe we are just expected to deposit our money into search funds and then turn to the sports pages?

A missing child is a private heartache and a public shame. At least this case is making us reconsider our perceptions of what good parenting is, regardless of material wealth and profession.

Feel free to call me bloody stupid if you like but if I ever get called for jury duty I'll certainly do my utmost to listen to all the evidence presented and ensure that justice is done. I would probably not enjoy the experience but it is a duty and as such I would take it very seriously. I know nothing about the judicial system in Australia but I'm guessing it's not that far removed from the British system as so many are around the world. If you are someone who would try to get out of doing jury duty I can only wish you the best of luck as someone who obviously feels such contempt for the system is probably best left out of it.

Forgive the edit but I did warn about this post and was told that BB's inflammatory answer was not being taken as personal to BM.

BM called ppl who couldnt get out of jury service as bloody stupid - he is exempt from jury service because of his job and knows the extent to which some ppl go to, to get out of their public service, he also knows about the poor job some ppl do that SHOULD have got out of jury service! His comment was general, BB's use of 'You' was aimed at him and was therefore a personal attack.

I just wondered what other people thought the use of 'you' actually meant.

'You' in the english language has two distinct meanings. The first is the second-person singluar pronoun directly refering to one person. The second is a plural pronoun referring to an either distinct or indistinct group of people. As I have told you off the public forum and now have to tell you here as well, I feel BBs comment was a general one.

I do like to keep these things private as I feel such open challenges and disputes are unprofessional and unnesessary but I also have a right to respond. BMs post offended some people, but out of respect to the fact that most people here can have a discussion without making it personal I let it stand and let others voice their concerns about it. I'd never let someone say something controversial and then censor any replies it got, that is simply not fair.

I appreciate that you like to bring dicussions like this out in the open, but I'd request that this is the last we hear about it on this thread. Make a new thread if you will, but please let's keep this thread free from anything that isn't discussion and well-wishes about the Maddy case.

I appreciate that you like to bring dicussions like this out in the open, but I'd request that this is the last we hear about it on this thread. Make a new thread if you will, but please let's keep this thread free from anything that isn't discussion and well-wishes about the Maddy case.

I take it the 'you' used here IS the second-person singluar pronoun!

/me winks at Vik and blows her a kiss x

Anyway back to maddie.
Todays news states that the mc canns have asked to be given lie detector tests, well im sure that only innocent people would ask for such a test.
As its deemed 99.9 percent positve, so i gladly say to myself i think the parents are completly innocent of all slurs against them.
Thank the lord for that small mercy.

A British tourist is the second person claiming to have seen missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Marrakesh, Morocco.

The second sighting claim, not disclosed by Portuguese police, came in the same location of the city and at a similar time of day as the first sighting.

The British tourist reportedly contacted Leicestershire police after returning home from Marrakesh and seeing pictures of the missing child, and passed the information on to Portuguese and Moroccan authorities.

Reports said he saw Madeleine in Marrakesh on May 9, the same day as a sighting by a Norwegian tourist, who said she saw the youngster in the city.

Madeleine vanished May 3 after she and her two-year-old twin siblings were left unsupervised in their room while their parents went to a restaurant inside their hotel complex while vacationing in Portugal.

The Norwegian woman claimed she saw Madeleine outside a gas station, while the British witness is said to have seen a young girl resembling Madeleine outside the Ibis Hotel, opposite the gas station.

A source close to the McCann family told reporters the British man was unaware of the other sighting. And Portuguese officers are said to have been accused of failing to follow up the second alleged sighting of Madeleine.

It was revealed yesterday the McCanns had "known for months" there were two possible sightings of their missing daughter in the same city on the same day.

Family spokesperson Clarence Mitchell said: "We have been aware of it for months. It was made known to us when it happened.

"All I can say is that any possible sightings, if credible, we hope would be examined thoroughly, whether it's in Portugal, Spain or anywhere else."

If they were aware of the sightings for months... why is it news? Wouldn't they have been followed up by now? I don't understand this story.

OMG tasha im totally with you, if they have known about these sightings for months, why the hell hasent it been followed up investigated to its fullest possible end.
If i was the parent i would have flown there personally and waited in the shadows somewhere to look out for my child, i wouldent have been sitting in portugal wasting time.
This has shocked and annoyed me thanks for the post tasha ive never heard this story at all.:cry:

In this case, I don't think that there will ever be a definitive outcome. If, say, Kate McCann was taken to court and found guilty, the hype of the case is so large that hoards of people will protest that she has been wrongly charged, or "framed". On the contrary, if somebody else were to be deemed guilty in court, I wonder how long it would be until Channel 4 show a documentary claiming that one of the McCanns was guilty. No matter what the outcome is, and however long it may take, there will be an enormous shadow of doubt over the final say.

Yes i agree with that, i wouldent be suprised if there was some greedy production company out there right now empiling a documentry on maddies,s case.
They will then wait for a time to bring it on to tv a make bundles of money off her back, of course everyone will want to watch it, its such a high powered case.

IF there is sufficient evidence and IF there are charges laid and IF it goes to trial - the matter may already have been sufficiently tainted by so much public conjecture that even IF one or both parents are guilty, (not going outside the premise of innocent until proven guilty), the prospects of a conviction will be substantially diminished due to the jury possibly being unable to restrict themselves only to the evidence presented by both prosecution and defence. Such publicly debated matters are difficult at the best of times and the facts sometimes get forgotten by jurors.

Having worked within the legal system for some years now I have seen way too many trials and court cases for my liking (thank god I'm in IA now). But it's not just the jurors who are supposed to be 12 men and women good and true etc - its a whole system that allows magistrates to remain on the bench way past their use by dates. Sure, with age comes wisdom, but one does have to wonder at some of the verdicts handed down by magistrates sitting alone, and who have lost touch with societal values, recalling only how it was "back in 42 when I was your age".

Kissy is right - I have seen cases where some jurors just plain should not have been allowed to cross the road unsupervised, let alone be called to serve on a panel of people that will make a decision that will impact on a person's life, be that the accused or the victim.

If Madeleine's parents are not guilty of anything but leaving the kids unattended, I just hope that that the poor kid is dead and not in the hands of some disgusting paedophile. Sorry if you don't agree with me on that point, but working in the field that I do, I am more of a realist than an optimist and this is my opinion in all such cases.

Aww as much as i hate to say this but i do kinda agree with you BM but then again i dont either.
Yes in many ways it would be better for her to be dead rather than be constantly used by nasty paedophiles, but i also think that as long as she is alive weather shes been abused by paedophiles or not she has a chance to live and get over the trama with time care and patience, and of course tons of love and kindness.
She could go on to lead a normal life.

She could go on to lead a normal life.

I don't agree with that at all. Even if she didn't remember anything about it, it would surely scar her for life anyway - maybe cause agoraphobia or something.


There was hope this morning when there were reports that she'd been sighted, and there was photographic evidence. However:

A photograph of a blonde girl in Morocco is not Madeleine McCann, it was reported today. British media said the picture is of the three-year-old daughter of a local family.

Journalists had flocked to Morocco after the picture was published showing a small girl being carried in a sling on the back of a woman in traditional dress.
The photo was passed to Interpol and is likely to be examined by experts from the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (Ceop) using facial recognition software.


But reporters tracked down the family in the photo, who lived just a mile away from where it was taken by a Spanish tourist three weeks ago.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "Clearly, if these reports that the girl in the photograph isn't Madeleine are true, it is disappointing news.

I don't agree with that at all. Even if she didn't remember anything about it, it would surely scar her for life anyway - maybe cause agoraphobia or something.


There was hope this morning when there were reports that she'd been sighted, and there was photographic evidence. However:
Im sorry you dont agree tasha with my earlier post, maybe i dident make myself clear hun.
When i said she could lead a normal life i meant that instead of being DEAD, she would lead a normal life eg, being alive loved given treatment for anything that does crop up as a result of her abduction.
I dont think for one minute that if found alive she would be scarless, but todays society is full of kids and adults alike who have been victim of rape paedaphilia and all number of cronic abuses.
But i think id much rather my child be found alive than dead as with life comes hope with hope comes freedom to live again, death is forever life can be made bearable.
Im not attacking tasha babe just saying it like i feel hun. xxx

Im sorry you dont agree tasha with my earlier post, maybe i dident make myself clear hun.
When i said she could lead a normal life i meant that instead of being DEAD, she would lead a normal life eg, being alive loved given treatment for anything that does crop up as a result of her abduction.
I dont think for one minute that if found alive she would be scarless, but todays society is full of kids and adults alike who have been victim of rape paedaphilia and all number of cronic abuses.
But i think id much rather my child be found alive than dead as with life comes hope with hope comes freedom to live again, death is forever life can be made bearable.
Im not attacking tasha babe just saying it like i feel hun. xxx

Oh, no of course!

I don't for a minute think it's better off that she's dead than with some disgusting paedophile (sp?).

I must have interpreted your post wrong :)

Oh, no of course!

I don't for a minute think it's better off that she's dead than with some disgusting paedophile (sp?).

I must have interpreted your post wrong :)
No worries sweet cheeks, you make valid points on this thread and i love reading your opinions xxx:razz:

LONDON: Five months have passed since British toddler Madeleine McCann went missing in Portugal. But, the Portuguese police still have no clue. Instead, they have come up with a new theory.

The cops say that Madeleine died after falling down a flight of stairs at her parents' holiday apartment, and the McCanns panicked and hid her body because they feared being blamed, the Daily Mail reported, citing a police report.

The report was based on the findings of two British sniffer dogs which allegedly found the "scent of death" and microscopic traces of blood inside the apartment and on Kate McCann's (Madeleine's mother) clothes.

However, refuting the allegation, the McCanns' spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "Some of the leaks that appear on a daily basis are hurtful, surely it is time to stop."

Even Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson, defended the couple against the barrage of slurs from the Portuguese police.

Speaking for the first time since it emerged he had donated 100,000 pounds to their legal costs, the billionaire said: "The Portuguese press have behaved abysmally, fed inaccurate stories by the Portuguese police, which all turned out to be a load of garbage."

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. They need to stop making up stories just to sell papers. It's getting ridiculous.

Like the mc canns said in the papers earlier this month.
They will gladly take lie detector tests to prove them innocent, so why hasent this been done yet the police sling mud at them the papers print crap.
Yet the mc canns have given them a way forward, a lie detector test is 99.6 percent accurate,SO DO THE FREAKING TEST AND BE DONE FFS.
Or will they then say well that odd 4 percent could still mean they did it, or say well they know the human body they are medical people could they not know a way round the detector test.
They will be houned untill maddie is home dead or alive, and all because of the media input and the portugese police who dont seem able to organise a piss up in a brewery.:cry:

I don't really know what to think. At first I thought her parents had something to do with it, but why would they? It doesn't add up. We shall see what comes of this.

? It doesn't add up. We shall see what comes of this.

Or will we. Hasn't really been anything on the news for ages, and it's been over 6 months since it happened now.

It's likely we'll never know for sure what happened =/

The latest sightings have been in morocco, a tourist claims he saw a little blonde girl fitting maddys description, shouting and crying i want my daddy while she was dragged away by two morocan people one male one female.
Why did he not approach the child and do something i dont care if he was in a foreign country, maddys plight has been worldwide for 6 months, he would have had ample help in the street if he would have caused a scene, wouldent he??.
So was this just another idiot out for his twenty minutes in the spotlight or was this the real deal, id like to think it was her, and shes still alive.
If wishes were kisses id have sore lips by now.

daamn, I hope the wee lil girl finds her way back home...