So...

The UK is becoming 'smoke free' as of July 1st, with a law banning smoking in enclosed public areas.

What do you think of this? Is it good or bad? Are you a social smoker, a smoker, a non smoker or a reformed smoker?

Here's my thoughts:

Ches = Smoker

Smoking in many enclosed public spaces has been banned for a long time anyway... I remember a time when smoking in cinemas, or on a bus or even in McDonalds was commonplace. I think I work in one of the only places in the country that still has a smoking room...

I agree that smoking in all the above areas is not particularly nice - It can get in your nose while you're eating, or obscure your view and generate coughing fits when trying to watch a film. On public transport it only seems fair not to subject other people to your smoke, as they're pretty confined spaces. I also realise that a smoking room at work is a luxury for us anti-social smokers.

So... public areas in this case really only means restaurants, pubs, clubs and private members clubs.

1. Restaurants - As much as I enjoy a cigarette after a meal (or even between courses if the service isn't quick enough!) many restaurants I go to are already non smoking and I'm not averse to popping outside for a smoke. Fair fair.

2. Pubs - Now here's the thorn in my side... Cigarettes and Alcohol go together like Strawberries and Cream. Sure, there are some people that only like strawberries and some that like cream but they work best together.

3. Clubs - I go to clubs when I am drunk. When I am drunk I smoke more. No more clubbing for me. No big deal I suppose - but how ridiculous.

4. Private Members Clubs - The operative word being private; these are paid membership clubs. I pay a membership fee to visit and use these facilities so therefore I think it should be down to the committee and members to decide whether they should allow smoking on premises or not.

The penalty for smoking in any enclosed public area will be a penalty of £50 to the perpetrator and £2,500 to any unobservant staff. (There's even a £1000 fine for not displaying non-smoking signs! If its against the law, why the need for signs?! I don't see 'We thank you for not shooting each other' signs anywhere)

edit: I just want to mention that there have been people specially trained to police these rules and will be undercover in pubs and clubs to issue on the spot fines. (Wonder how much tax that's cost us) I think they'll be easy to spot though: I don't think they'll be sending little people on their own to try to tell large groups of inebriated people to put it out.

In conclusion, and from the perspective of (I like to think) a fairly objective (objectionable?) smoker, I fully agree that smoking should be banned in public places due to the health risks to other people, however in the cases of pubs and clubs I think it should be down to the landlord/chain/members whether or not they wish to allow smoking in their establishments. This would provide smokers with places to socialise and indulge their vices and the option for non-smokers to attend places which do not permit smoking if they require a completely smoke free environment.

If its that bad, ban it completely - stop allowing the import and manufacture of cigarettes for sale in the UK.

I'm done... wow. See what happens when you black list me from iSketch? Well done to anyone who managed to read all the way down here. Have a sticker.

Anyway... the discussion is open. Whaddya think?

__________________

The major thing about it is that (like in Australia) the government makes that much out of tobacco in excise and taxes that to ban it completely would send them broke.

The Australian Hotels Association claims it could cost 8000 jobs and half a billion dollars a year in gaming and alcohol tax revenue, but the anti-smoking lobby says the bans do not go far enough.

I am a non-smoker (not a reformed smoker - I never took it up) and although I don't like people blowing smoke on me, it has never stopped me going to places where there are smokers. Soking in restaurants has been banned here for some years now, and most smokers like Ches has said, don't mind going outside for a smoke. Mrs Bad quite likes to do this as she says it helps to be able to walk- off some of the meal.

I think it's an infringement on smokers' civil liberties, to completely ostracise them, when they are committing an act that has only been retrospectively outlawed, yet was condoned for hundreds of years by Governments worldwide.

Next thing they'll be doing is banning the supply and service of alcohol in enclosed premises like pubs and clubs.

__________________
[/url]

I agree about Private Clubs, Ches. Members and staff should vote on it.

In nightclubs with the already awful quality of the air and too much alcohol being consumed, I'd think that a little smoke thrown in wouldn't make all that much difference! So, couldn't give a damn either way if it was banned or not. Might be nicer for the staff though who have to work there everynight if it was banned.

However, I have to disagree with your outlook on pubs. It ruins an evening when there's a table of smokers sitting next to you - plus twice I have had cigarette burns in clothing caused by drunk and careless smokers. Also, I think a lot of 'social smokers' wouldn't bother if no-one else was lighting up. I am not a smoker, so I can't say this for sure, but I think the only reason cigarettes and alcohol go together is because people are used to it. The staff I'm sure would also appreciate the non-smoking rule, and lastly, I have been put off going to the pub before now because I really hate how my clothes, hair etc smell the next morning.

__________________

A lot of valid points made above! I'm quite interested in how it will work in clubs because those that do smoke will want to/need to go outside for a quick puff - how will this work with the doormen? I suppose they'll have to do hand stamps but some doorways aren't the best to get one lot in and one lot out with queues forming for entry.

A colleague of mine spends a lot of time in Spain where they too have a smoking ban (I think it's Spain they do this ... anyway). Apparently, the smaller pubs are allowed to have smoking in them - the square foot area has to be below a certain size but when the smoking ban was being brought in the smaller pubs were saying that it would complete destroy their business. It seems ironic that they can smoke in a smaller confined area, but in the larger area pub they can't!

Also, with the Meet coming up and Ches raising the point that this will be the last Meet with smoking allowed inside, I was wondering about hotels and the bedrooms - will it all be non-smoking? Imagine being in a hotel like the Burj Al Arab in Dubai and being on the top floor and having to pop outside for a smoke!! (Actually, not sure that Dubai has a smoking ban yet!) But you get the picture - being in a hotel with 100 floors and you're on the top - by the time you take the lift down to go outside for a smoke, the urge will have gone! Or worse still, the lift has broken down and you have to walk!!

I want to be a Smoking Policer!! I'd love to slap a fine on my ex husband!!

__________________

Ok i agree with the smoking ban NOTTT.
The world has coped so far, people will never change.
I can only see trouble being caused, drunken men and boys lighting up cause they feel brave after a few pints.
Women also. Fights when the doormen/ bouncers chuck them out.
More rubbish outside in the street, eg beer bottles puke ect where people have sat outside pubs just to smoke.
And lets not forget the fines, our goverment thrives on fines, this is there latest money spinner, so they get bigger salaries to go to countries without bans and drink there brandys and cigars in peace.
The only thing about the ban i do agree with is eating areas no one should have to swallow smoke while chowing down.
So roll on goverment you win again, greedy pompuss dictaters

But if you were on the top you could probably go out onto the Tennis court for a gasper.....

I'd even take up smoking if I got a chance to go there.

Maybe I'll start off with Nicabate Patches and work my way up to it

__________________
[/url]

I've been reading this:

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/fi...new_sf_law.pdf

Very interesting... Anyone know where I can find a pub with a ceiling and just one wall? haha

Seriously though, can someone tell me why this ban has an exemption for prisons? Law abiding people risk fines and legal action for lighting up, whereas convicted criminals can light up to their heart's content?

On a happier note for me, hotels will still allowed to have smoking bedrooms! So it looks like instead of going down the pub, I'm going to have to book in hotels, get a lil bit plastered at the bar, then go to my room, smoke away and abuse the room service! :P




edit: I just found this!

I shall now be known as 'Funny Hat Smoking Man'. I shall offer free performances at any venue I visit, where, when I am performing, I will sit wearing a novelty hat whilst puffing on a cigarette to the hilarity and artistic admiration of my audience. As part of my act I will allow the little people, members of the public, to become part of my act should they wish by providing them with a silly hat. They will however, be required to supply their own nicotine products if they would like to be part of the complete artistic experience.

__________________

Cherry offers her services in your act as an ashtray.
You can flick your ash at me as much as you like kilty :)

I have been trying to stop smoking for a few months and the Ban will certainly make it easier for me. I have been smoking for twenty years - and that is very scary (I was stupid enough to have my first cigarette at 13). I am definitely going to make a very concerted effort to stop now and break this awful habit.

I used to be really fit, but find it difficult to climb up one staircase. My clothes smell of smoke and my children (especially the eldest) are concerned about my health and the damage it is doing. Pretty selfish really - isn't it? I don't smoke anywhere near them - but they still worry all the same.

The Government Health Warnings on the back of cigarette's in the UK are far too tame. They are just words and hardly anyone reads them. In Australia (I am positive that Bad Manners will confirm this) they have graphic images of what damage cigarette's can do. Why can't the UK Government do something like this? Reading is one thing - but to see it is something completely different.

Ches - I do appreciate your feelings regarding this ban, but time to wake up and really smell the coffee (as smoker's, our senses are impaired after all )!

__________________

Can I just say I work in a pub restaurant and have, in the past, worked in the smoking area. This has invariably resulted in me coming home stinking with a terrible sick headache and sore throat that feels like it's coated in a layer of smokey gunk.

Please think about the people who have no choice unless they want to lose their jobs. Why should someone else's smoking damage our health ???

Thankfully our restaurant has banned smoking since a refurb last May and it's a much bicer, cleaner and fresher smelling enviroment to work in.

On a serious note - passive smoking is just as dangerous. When you go to a pub and have a drink, the effects are just on yourself. When you go to a pub and have a smoke - everyone is affected.

__________________

unforntunately i too am a smoker, i have to say i don't think the ban will really effect me as i'm an anti social cow, who very rarely goes to a pub/club as it's easier to stumble after a few drinky poos to bed from the sofa, however, i have heard that the ban will also effect you in the home. i.e. if you have a plumber or electrician in you cannot smoke in your own home.
This i think frankly goes too far in ruling our lives and telling us what we can and can't do.
if the plumbers in the bathroom and i'm in my living room why can't i have a cigarette, after all who payed for the the 4 walls i'm sitting in.
There feel much better now.

I am a a non-smoker and never have been and think it is a dreadful thing to do. When we were all first told about the ban I was very happy about it and thought how nice it would be to go to a pub and come out not smelling of smoke and like Vik I too have had few burns on clothes and on hands from drunk smokers. But then i started thinking about how awful a world we live in when the government is telling us what to do, what happened to free will etc? Also as someone else said (cherry i think)? outside the pubs will be loads of smokers, drunks, sick etc and fag butts galore. It will be quite offputting for some people to even go into a pub if they have to go through a crowd of smokers first. So I am against it I think!

__________________

I think it will be the best thing that's ever happened over here. It's ok saying about free-will BUT the smoker gets cleaner smoke than the person who's taking in second-hand smoke. People aren't considerate enough to others to stop smoking around them so rules are put in place to force them to be considerate.

On a second note, I hate going into a resturant and someone having to light up between every course. It actually puts me off my food and everything else for ages until I manage to banish the smoke entirely from my person.

A couple of months ago, the MOD banned smoking inside all of it's camps including the messes AND all the single squaddie accomodation that's inside the wire. So, if you're single you're likely to live inside the wire and if you also hang out in the mess alot you have to go all through the gates and out to have a smoke. There are also plently of work places that have banned smoking in the grounds in the same way. They're coping, so why shouldn't everyone else?

Considering that, everyone's getting a light deal in my opnion!

__________________

In all situations? Or just pubs and clubs? I believe there are already non-smoking establisments as well as those that allow smoking. Why should it be a law, not a choice?

Agree with you on that one. Smoking and eating doesn't mix. I'm usually the first to ask, 'Do you mind if I eat while you smoke?' Although t wouldn't put me off everything, I don't find it particularly appertising.

Everyone else... except criminals, hospices, asylums and MPs... (yes, MPs still get a smoking room in those Houses of Parliament.) Other than that, I agree. Smoking in work places is not really on. Its easy enough to go outside for a ciggy.

However... people are not assigned jobs at any given time. When people took up a job in a smoking pub, they knew they were going into a smokey atmosphere. Admittedly it has been seen that passive smoking is dangerous, but why not allow establishments to decide whether they wish to allow smoking or not? Smokers and non-smokers could choose their social venues...

My argument really comes down to this... The government should ban smoking outright, or allow it to be a choice which is down to the business proprietor. There is no middle ground.
It's bad for you, we all know this - ban it! Classify it as an illegal drug.
It's addictive - provide help for those that are addicted! - Charging more than/equal to cigarettes for nicotine replacements is hardly inspiring.

[quote=Facey}Considering that, everyone's getting a light deal in my opnion![/quote]

Nictotine is an addiction. Getting off any addiction is not something I could call a light deal.

kb dead...bck in a bit. lol

__________________

I meant lightly as in at lesat you're not being banned from smoking in your home or while you walk from the post office to the supermarket, or something to that effect. Looking at that, I can't see why this is such a problem.

Imagine the uproar if they were to blanket ban smoking full stop. That'd be wrong too. So they've found a middle ground and have banned it in certain areas. I actually think it would be unfair to have a blanket ban. I just object to smoking while I'm around!

__________________

The only place I mind smoke is in restaurants.

And when I have a headache. When you start smoking near me when I have a headache you'll be sorry -haha.

But I know too many people who smoke, I'm used to it really. To me it won't make a difference, with or without ban.

I'm not too fond of banning activities by law though, so I guess if I have to say 'for or against', I'm against.

__________________

Now the ban is in force, and in the beginning I somewhat agreed with it. Now I find, when I go to work, I can't even go into our private car park at the rear of the building and have a smoke. It's not an enclosed space, and it was perfect for all smokers because it is out of sight of the public. I think there is nothing worse than seeing a large group of people hanging around on the street having a smoke, its unsightly. They have taken this too far in my opinion regarding work places. Yes, I agree with no smoking in restricted spaces, ie offices, restaurants etc, but to say you can't have a smoke in a car park, feet away from the doors and windows is ridiculous.

Be interesting to see how our Police Force will handle complaints about groups of Police Officers standing on the corner having a smoke! Ironic really, the prisoners they lock up have more human rights than the police man himself!

Yup. Clever though... I am a smoker, but I am also sodding lazy. Not sure what's going to win yet.

So far laziness has the upper hand, cos I haven't been motivated to walk the gazillion miles to the new smoking area.

__________________

I was a rebel today Ches, and sat in my car, in the works car park, and had a smoke! What made me mad today was, where I work it's facing the council offices (Councils are the ones to inflict the fines btw). I walked around my work place, to find a chap that works at the council, smoking in a small doorway that all council workers use! But I have to walk over 100yards for a smoke? Double standards some would say!

Same thing here. Cops skulking around out in the back alley for a smoke. Looks like a bunch of roadies at a Rolling Stones concert.

I reckon it will have to be Council Law Enforcement Officers or Environmental Protectio Agency Officers doing the enforcement - try booking the cops for that and see how quickly you get a vehicle defect notice and a speeding ticket and a parking infringement....

__________________
[/url]

Oh how bloody annoying is that, i would have spoken to him directly telling him in no uncertain terms exactly how i felt.
I hate double standards especially when its from so called authority againt us.

I work in a police station and all our officers have to smoke in the car park right at the far end!

__________________

They are lucky then! I work at 2 police stations, both on the same division, and the DC has banned smoking completely. NO smoking on ANY of Police properties!!

Funny today, all smokers, with coats on, looking slightly dodgy with hoods up in the rain on the street corner .... so they can have a smoke.

Yesterday - same thing - smokers hanging around the back door in the alley. Funny thing is we have CCTV watching the door and can see them all out there shivering. I may try to persuade the boss to get the poor sods an awning. Either that or get our Healthy Lifestyles Branch to help them quit

__________________
[/url]